Tuesday, March 9, 2010

With friends like this, one does not have enemies

I was "home" for as long as I read this loving humble not-at-all-condescending email. I really don't miss the days in which unsolicited advise was given for free in twisted almighty cult psychology manners. "We are the best and right, they/you are all wrong, I am the light, I will show you the way. He is beating you up for your own growth, to "free you from the world"" - stabbed from the back while being patted with a smile in the front, while I should keep the smile "no matter what". With friends like this, one certainly does not have enemies!
PS: I had an excellent successful career, education, home and friends before and post AoL. My mistake, like that of many others, was my gullible love for service and knowledge.


From JA

Hello Klim,

I read with great interest some of your blogs that you have written to malign Gurudev whom you had so much love for. Reminds me of one historical character who deceived Jesus for a few silver coins - do I need to tell you who he was? And do I need to remind you what happened to him? This is not to put fear in you, because you have plenty already to have created the blog - but for you to take some time out and do some introspection - at least you will be saved from your own mind - for your own sake... not for anyone else.

It's a free world, and you can say anything about anyone. A Guru's work is to free you from the world - looks like you were more interested in something else but freeing yourself with the most wonderful knowledge you received from Him...

- Did anyone ever stop you from being a fully employed person who enjoys spirituality and teaching - after all more than 99% teachers of AOL are full volunteers with a job or business - isn't it?
- Looks like you did not have much skills or confidence yourself to make a successful career outside AOLF. Guruji seldom asks people to become full timers - in fact, He tells people to have a healthy family life and serve whenever they can. HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN ALL THIS? Or has the hatred taken over you so much that you do not remember anything from your past?
- Have you completely forgotten the enlightening knowledge that you received about this infinite consciousness, or has Truth also become just a fantasy for you?

What are you doing these days other than spreading negativity - is this your plan for the remaining part of your life? Have you considered what you will be doing in the next 10 - 20 years - spreading negativity forever? Wake up my friend - if you are unhappy, go find something else to do - no one's stopping you - there's so much good work to be done in this world and you can be a wonderful instrument. It's like so many employees in my company who keep complaining and bitching about their job, and I tell them the same - stop complaining! If you don't like the job, go find something else to do... because, honestly, no one cares what you are complaining against...

You think you are making friends with your blogs, but I can assure you - you will be left completely friendless until you engage in helping others and in spreading positivity. Stop adding misery to your life - you know this, don't you? Go somewhere else where you can make a positive impact - somewhere you are really contribute. Maybe that's destined for you... And my blessings and best wishes that you truly find a fulfilling life there. You look like you are a good writer - write something nice and uplifting - help others come out of their stresses and fears and anxiety - maybe you don't think AOLF is doing that - but maybe you can do that - maybe show all of us in AOLF what true service is - maybe we can emulate you!

Jai Gurudev & love & best wishes,
Your friend

47 comments:

Anonymous said...

What he says makes sense. You've made your point through this blog. Time to move on and erase the dark years of your life. I have. It's easier to live now that AoL no longer has me in its clutches.

Prairie Princess said...

Typical AOL head-in-the-sand approach to life. Do you think many of his "devoted followers" had past lives as ostriches? Or will that be their future life? The dissonance of threats disguised as concern is bizarre. But, in my brief time with that group, I saw many people who were dissociated from reality.

Sanwani said...

Anonymous @ 7.46
Its easy to advise someone to move on with life. Easier said than done when you have given the best years of your life trusting a Guru and doing unconditional service and at the end of it all, getting thrown out like a piece of used tissue paper.

I can understand the hurt KLIM is going through, I was there once. Maybe writing this blog helps him ease his pain and hurt and at the same time do a great seva to humanity by exposing the wrongs in this most esteemed (or so the world thinks )organisation.

jivani said...

Oh boy...condescending much?

This whole "speaking out against a guru is spreading negativity" is yet another way of trying to keep people down and the truth hidden. It's controlling. 'How dare you say anything against SSRS--YOU must have a problem. It's all YOU and YOUR problem. YOU are a negative person, Klim.' Couldn't be SSRS. I'm not buying it. This is cult brain-washing at it's best.

Condescending advice-giving is such a turn-off.

"And my blessings and best wishes that you truly find a fulfilling life there."

Do you really mean that? Because your tone does not sound like that at all. Get real. It's hard to take a person or post like this seriously when it's so fakely nice.

Betty said...

KLIM seems happy enough to me. I believe that what he is doing with this blog is public service, done with the same pure motivation that he originally put into working for AOL. He doesn't need this blog for himself.

Anonymous said...

I think JA advise you to get the whole garbage out in 1 shot and move ahead with your life, instead of opening topics after topic like a Daily SOAP spending yours and other times. JA , let me be very honest with you , this blog does help me to view things that are happening at AOL from a different perspective or from a perspective of an outsider. It has a purpose, But I do agree that it does not make sense for people to waste too much time on this or any blog and if you really extend that even watching movies or most of the daily news falls in this category.

Agree we need to channelise our energies to help people and AOL is a good training ground, but makes sense not to get very attache with org or guru and move on. Another thing that usually happens to me is just because you do AOL sewa you will notice that there is a strong expectations from people that I should be speaking, behaving and living in some noble manner. Request AOL to do an internal discussion on the product marketing strategies again as it has been openly known to people through this blog.

Lax said...

To spread negativity or positivity, one needs motivation.
For writing negative, only motivation can be vinndictiveness by the oppressed and cheated. I am sure KLIm and many others who share the views (including me) looked at SSRS as real GURU. I definitely did that. I bought nearly 20 CD's. Did AOL-Basic course twice. Started propagating SSRS teachings to near and dear... I did all these. But in one corner of my mind, I always had a doubt. I was frequently searching for something clandestine to come out. It did, through this blog. I believe this blog, as they are are many contributors and Klim shared his own experiences.

I am sure this devotee is also in 100% belief on SSRS. Like you and me, Klim.

My questions to the ardent follower

1) Why do AOL collect 90 lakhs in a course? (Previous blog)
2) Why should a 'Renounced' yogi fly to various countries, live in luxurious hotels, and travel by luxurious cars?
3) Why does a renounced yogi require bungalows and ashrams( 6 million for LA ashram, i think)
4) Why does he allow his 'Banu Didi' etc, to wear costly sarees and 'ultra costly' things.?
5) First of all, why should a renounced yogi charge for SK and other courses?
6) Why should he charge for 'So called knowledge'? Knowledge should be free from a 'Renounced Yogi' or 'Enlightened Master'.
7) A renounced yogi should be in one place. People from all over the world should visit him. But here, he travels all over the world
8) Why a renounced yogi should aspire for nobel prize?
9) An enlightened person would not crack sillly jokes, and would not speak for others to laugh. ( I have heard some of his speeches in CD. He talks fun and people just laugh. But there is no sense. One example. SSRS says " Once a devotee came and told me Guruji, I want to start a course. You know, the course name? It is 'Shut Up'." When SSRS said this, all the listeners laughed aloud. Again he says the same thing that the course name is 'Shut up'. and all the listeners laugh again.... Man, what is this? I don't really comprehend. Is this how an enlightened master gives lectures.

Spendi said...

It is the same tone that Nithy followers employed against the blog which wrote about the misdeeds of nithy.
Klim is doing a great service by warning people against a cult which has usurped prime land through illegal means and has been involved in abuse. These people are actively courting more followers and money. It is important to warn people against this fruad. Bringing awareness is a positive effort. It is a great seva. Far more greater seva than bringing unsuspected victims and fleecing them for the self and family aggrandizement of the guru. AOL people might be blinded by their ostrich atitudes and fanaticism on the harm they have caused to hundreds of people. I see this blog as a very positive service. It is far more enlightening than the plagiarized knowledge of ravishankar.

Anonymous said...

Klim ,

I know how it feels- betrayal of trust & wanton abuse. As I am what I am. Just cannot give an apathetic shrug & smile. Even when the victim is a total stranger in some remote part of the world.

Ignore those rushing forward with faux bandaid & lip sympathy. Till I see the perpetrators being punished I can never sincerely claim I am healed.

Anonymous said...

Those saviours of Klim or this world who find Klim is achieving nothing by writing , why come here to read at all ?

Anonymous said...

This is the writing of an immature and fearful Ostrich mind against KLIM and Co. The author has already pre-judged them. However, at no point in the entire message are they offering any explanations or other views for any of the wrong doings....

KLIM and Co are providing yet another view.....it is a free world.....remember your Master loves you.....and he has always said for you to be the grandest version of yourself.....and since he is non-judgemental his love for you is not going to change.

Follow the money...the money trail never lies

Peaceful Warrior said...

AOL is full of negative people... They think the "world" is a dreadful place and people are out to get them.

I fully support KLIM - I don't think he needs to do this for himseld...this is public service, or as AOL would call it "Seva".

grateful_reader said...

I'm in a environment where people blindly support AOL no matter what. This blog is a great beacon of reason for me. KLIM is doing some pretty wonderful seva w/ this blog.

KLIM and CO. said...

I don't think any further comments are necessary from my part. But I can't help but share that I just realized JA created a new gmail account just to write so righteously: poorsinfulklim@gmail.com.

I find that more sick and psychotic, and I was preached about love, being magnanimous, spiritual, living the knowledge, etc.?! They got to be kidding me. But then, what do I know? I endured that kind of twisted reverse abusive guilt and fear inducing psychology so many years!

Anonymous said...

KLIM,
Please keep up the good work.
I am an Indian and I have already sent this blog to my family and friends. If a single person is prevented from wasting his life for this scam, your efforts are worth it. One of my close friends was undergoing a messy divorce. She was getting engulfed in AOL crap. I have rescued her and your blog was one of my tools. Please do not stop.

Anonymous said...

How low and cheap can these AOLites stoop. What gives JA the right to refer to you as poorsinfulklim? Self riteous crap - go get a life JA

Komal said...

KLIM,

I attended AoL Part I class during a rather stressful time in my life. My search was primarily for Yoga and breathing lessons and thanks to a friend who was raving about the relaxation she had experienced during SK, I joined. Day 1 was ok. The breathing exercise left my fingers feeling numb and I was told that it was the energy finally routing right. Day 3 was very strange for me - the teacher turned the music on and asked us all to close our eyes and start dancing. I was quite taken aback - I stayed in place with my eyes closed and got piled on y the teacher for not daring to lose my inhibitions. This was contrary to the yogic discipline I had expected. I started listening to the words carefully and something just felt off to me - figured I was not ready for any sort of enlightenment. My classmates seemed to have life changing experiences during the sessions. I was quite reserved in class. On the last day, I asked the ever smiling teacher how and when he decided to become an AoL teacher. The response was surprising - the smile disappeared and I got a snippy "Why? Do you think you are ready to become a teacher? A lot more sadhana and seva is required before you can go that path". Another strange moment - decided to stay away from additional classes. This was two years ago. I still get phone calls from them (no voice mails, just repeated phone calls) that I do not answer. The most current overture is Facebook requests. I never could pinpoint exactly why I had the "All is not as it appears to be" feeling during AoL I. My experience is very trivial compared some of the accounts listed by you and other contributors to your blog. I hope time works in positive ways for you all. My best wishes...

Prairie Princess said...

Why not call this JA out by full name or does JA stand for JAck A**?? Because he/she is certainly behaving that way.
It is hard enough to take care of yourself when you are in the grip of a destructive cult without creatures like JA attempting to make it worse. How many "buttons" does this blog push for the poor, deluded JA??

Anonymous said...

A negative approach is needed just as much as positive approach, not only to strike a balance in the thought process but also to ensure that the intellectual/ rational/ critical/ analytical faculties are well exercised and kept in good use.

Chris Williams said...

What about money? Why is there no accounting of the money that flows in and out? I'll tell you why - it's because everybody who serves the Guru collects money and give it to him and his inner circle, for the Guru to use it as he pleases. It's that simple. I know from seeing cult brainwashed zombies that they don't feel like it's wrong, in fact they are doing "seva" by "saving" what you tend to call "the world". About this "the world" that you speak of...tell me one thing, isn't "the world" also a part of God's creation? Why then is it suddenly a place that you want to escape from and be freed from? A saint once said, "bloom where you are planted". If you really are talking about reaching infinite consciousness, then you'll be poorly disappointed to find once you reach there, that your infinity includes this "the world" that you are trying to shun and get freed from. Even humble laborers know better - hate the sin, not the sinner. What's with this "the world" and "us"? The so called AoL "satsang" is mostly a bunch of flirtatious young guys and gals looking for hook ups after the spiritual disco. I say so because I've seen it with my eyes. SSRS also encourages this by using word like "fun" or "you guys rock" and such. Cheap tactics to attract young people. There are many other questions that people have, which need answers. Could anybody from the AoL org. give satisfactory answers? If so, then heck ya...we'll emulate you. If not, please stop spreading letters about spreading negativity. In case your Guru didn't teach you, it's only because of the darkness that people turn to light. So if all this bashing is negativity, it is so make all of you guys stronger in your faith. Take it from God. Take it from your Guru, huh? Leave KLIM to his poor Judas-like fate..what say? KLIM, just go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Doesn't matter if you make this blog your full time job :P
Seriously though, we need you here. Let JA follow his own advice and go someplace else where he will "fulfill his destiny" and be "freed from the world". Cheers to all!

Chris Williams said...

Dear JA,

Since I don't know who you are, I'm assuming you'll be reading this letter via the blog or KLIM would forward this to you or it's just going to stay as a comment on this thread. I could be sarcastic, but I am not angry towards you, because I've interacted with many others like you who've expressed similar views. I know you'll forgive me if you think I've crossed any limit. Just FYI, this letter is for people who express similar opinions like yours and just to you. KLIM, since I don't know if you are he/she/they, I will just use "he" and so on for sake of simplicity in my posts. Now, your letter begins with Judas. Obviously you haven't done your history homework, because there's more to Judas than what you know. Anyway, Judas apart, the harsh reality of life is that people need answers when they have questions. It's that simple. When KLIM doesn't have answers as to why his Guru would indulge in homosexual behavior when he can go into samadhi, why his org. has so many unfair things going on in it,etc. then it's but human to presume certain things. If SSRS is the divine Guru that you claim him to be, let him give a public statement that he enjoys having sex with boys/men, that it's perfectly spiritual to do so and that all his followers/disciples could also do that if they feel so inclined. That would be the end of AoL. Okay, how about if he released a letter just to you guys in the org. saying so? Would you accept it without question? Would you have any faith left in your Guru then? There are hundreds of cases of Gurus having sex with their followers and that's one main reason people tend to blow whistles, because the Gurus themselves advise against it. Alright, now how about if SSRS started a course explaining how you can have all the sex you want, while still remaining spiritual? Wouldn't all the college goers across the world sign up for it? There are limits and boundaries dear friend. I myself like sex very much, but I also know that if I over indulge, it is detrimental to my spiritual growth. There are things such as energy, morality, fidelity, etc. I could quite easily, using my looks and position, sleep around like it's nobody's business. But wouldn't that tear my soul apart? Wouldn't I be disloyal to my partner? Or did all of a sudden your Guru find out a way to have as many sexual partners as you want and still find liberation? Sign me up for it then!

Anonymous said...

JA,

The "world" which one needs to be freed from includes freeing oneself from the clutches of a cult. So KLIM is actually doing a good thing. Think of it as advanced technique and come to the other side.

Anonymous said...

As long as you keep thinking and writing about AOL, you are stuck in the past. Move on and stop putting a tag that you are doing a service to the people by exposing what AOL is doing. - You are exposing your own insecurity. Whatever was supposed to happen has happened, now its up to you to move on or be stuck in the past. We think more of people whom we hate than we think of people whom we love. Start thinking of people whom you really care and love and lead a new life. AOL people will really envy you,they wouldn't be thinking of their Guru as much as you are! Past is past. As long as you are stuck in the past - anger, hatred, regret will keep haunting your mind. Save your mind Klim- yes for your own sake. This blog is giving you false friends and false security - nothing is going to last forever. Absolutely nothing. Please move on. Don't get stuck. Realize that you are involving more deeply in AOL now than you were before- by constantly thinking of AOL. For your own sake, move on.

KLIM and CO. said...

blablabla "Save your mind Klim- yes for your own sake...." blablablabla

They are kidding me right? And on top of everything they even try to save me and give me the friendship crap argument with a little bit of SSRS knowledge?! Give me a break.It's called hypocresy! But I am moved that an AoL person is so concerned about me. Sweet, isn't it? Anyway, it just reminds me too much of all my AoL teachers/peers and all those who left who don't dare share the ugly stuff they know, but that, for the sake of their own minds (actually called "fear of Ravishankar and of losing face"), they let many other people go through abuse of all kinds. Yes, he keeps touching boys and he keeps cheating and letting those senior teachers you know strangle and slap people, and keep money in the name of seva.

Don't worry, I no longer think of HIM, nor you in any case. But it seems you guys are of me. Don't worry. This blog won't go for ever and nothing can harm Ravishankar, oh God almighty! Right?

"psychological dissonance" is written all over your response.

KLIM and CO. said...

Actually, why didn't you all show this same emergency concern and care when I and others were lied about, abused, cheated and when women and men we know were being sexually abused? This double-faced responses simply show the AoL dirt and psychosis even more. Get out of your cult mentality. The world is probably more concerned about people like you in your situation than about people like me.

Lindsay said...

"Whatever was supposed to happen, happened"

No. A so-called spiritual enlightened guru was not supposed to abuse his disciples, nor lie to them nor lie about them, nor touch them anywhere (even less anywhere close to the underwear or any other erogenous part of the body), nor cheat on anyone in the name of seva. That was not supposed to happen, and if that was so, then all sexual offenders and robbers would all be set free nor incriminated. Past is past. It was supposed to happen!

Anonymous said...

EXCERPTS FROM THIS BLOG -

1 MOST AOL FOLLOWERS ARE DISSOCIATED FROM REALITY

2 AOL/RAVISHANKAR'S INTELLIGENCE IS PARALYZING TO INDIVIDUAL. FAMILY. SOCIETY, NATION AND UNIVERSE.

....CAN ANYBODY LIST
REASONABLE, LOGICAL, SENSIBLE AND SCIENTIFIC HAPPENINGS IN AOL?

Anonymous said...

KLIM

U ARE HONEST IN CONFESSING

U ARE PROBABLY DEMOCRATIC IN INCLUDING ALL COMMENTS

U ARE REASONABLE IN ANALYZING

REVENGE DOES NOT LOOK TO BE THE REASON FOR THIS BLOG

.....I AM SURE U CAN SAVE THIS WORLD FROM AOL VIRUS.

....KEEP IT UP. EACH PERSON SAVED FROM CLUTCHES OF AOL IS EQUAL TO GREAT SELFLESS SERVICE AND A PERFECT HEALING.

IAmNotSurprised said...

Its funny yet very annoying that all AOL teachers or senior members sound the same, just like JA in this post. They are the walking-talking AOL robots

Some of the traits of a typical AOL Robot are as follows,

1) It has a huge smile on the face, no matter what. Life is just too good for them
2) It closely imitates the so called Guruji's mannerism: the style of talking, wording, humor, hair style, etc
3) It uses scare tactic to make you do what it wants. Constant rhetoric of living in the present. Do it now or its you are missing out on something big (really!). Sign up for the course (give us your money) right now or its your loss forever (WTF? This is the United States of America. Who the @#$% are you to tell other people what to do in their life).
4) If one robot cant convince, the more senior robots will gang up on you to convince you to take the course
5) It makes you feel guilty just because you disagree with them
6) It is fake, lives in company of other robots only and has no perception of reality
7) According to it, If you are not a robot, you are nothing. You are just a loser.

fair_and_balanced said...

KLIM.. You have alleged sexual abuse on the part of SSR, specifically with regards to young men. Can you clarify this issue in a separate post either way? Specifically what allegations are you making? It seems too important.

According to wikipidea the US AOLF total revenue is in the single digit millions (way less than 5 million). This is actually pretty small potatoes given the number of branches and people involved in the USA. There are smaller (less well known) non-profits who make ten times that much by charging exorbitant fees for various camps (educational summer camps for kids etc). So while I agree that transparency on governance and financial issues at AOL is murky and chaotic, it does seem that the actual impact of AOLF USA is very limited, perhaps mostly extending to a small subset of the Indian diaspora. The only thing that they seem to do well is organize courses with no proper followup of people who took part (the followup sessions are good and based on the goodwill of the teacher volunteers but the actual number of people who show up at these is modest). In India, its a different story as the cultural context is completely different.

fair_and_balanced said...

komal: yeah you missed out by not letting go and dancing.. generally most people who do the basic course do come out feeling very positive. your teacher may have not been very skilled but the packaging of the basic course components is very well done/designed.. KLIM claims that SKriya is harmful. possibly its not good for some but it totally depends on how hard one is trying.. the point is to do it without overstraining.. thats what I was told. your mileage may vary. I would also recommend running on the treadmill at 70% of your max. capacity. Its just common sense.

KLIM and CO. said...

Komal you did not do anything wrong. That was nit a very fair or balanced comment sorry. A lot of people don't feel like dancing or doing many things that go on in the course, and many are forced to do it, for ex. If one doesn't want to dance as teachers we were trained to force them to do so -they were losers who did not let go. Come on. It's invasion of boundaries and very contrary to "accept people as they are" script. Not everyone enjoys the course, not everyone feels it changes their life, not everyone feels it is that unique or great or mind-blowing.

Anonymous said...

Klim ,

Why waste words with your detractors sans empathy ? Just don't publish their comments. I know their victimising response would be youarenotfairwhy deletemycomments..Don't fall for that bait.

That an overwhelming number of indians mostly hindus still shield & support nithy betrays the mindset here. Let them go to Hell.

jivani said...

Komal,
Regarding the dancing in the basic course, I experienced something similar in my AoL group. We were asked to make different animal sounds and wander through the room as animals, interacting with each other. I have also done this sort of thing in other yoga groups. I have never liked it and although have been involved in yoga for many years and done these types of activities often, I always feel awkward. I felt an expectation from the AoL group (or perhaps it was from me, not them--but I don't think so) that I let go of inhibitions and that if I didn't feel comfortable doing it, that I was somehow spiritually inferior.

The dancing or animal noises could potentially be freeing for some, but to me, yoga is about being with all my emotions, thoughts, sensations, feelings without judgment, with compassion. If there's an expectation from the teacher or others or myself that I be something other than inhibited if that is how I feel, than it seems meaningless and not helpful. I want to learn to simply be with whatever I'm experiencing, not try to change it so that I can be something I'm not, like uninhibited. So, to me, if the activity is led in such a way that the teacher is trying to change a student's experience than the student may sense something is wrong and the practice is misleading.

Overall, I find these exercises not helpful in the grand scheme of my yoga practice. So what if I can make animal noises in a group and swing from a tree like a monkey without a care? So what if I can't? Thankfully, I am confident enough not to give a s--t anymore. If I don't want to make an animal noise and slither through the room, then I simply won't. I'm sure it won't make or break my enlightenment. Certainly if others are freely dancing or whatever, it doesn't make one who isn't doing so any less. Sometimes I think such activities are set up to make comparisons---like those who can do it are the cool kids and those who can't aren't so cool.

I guess this is kind of a small topic compared with the rest of this blog and thoughts on AoL. My apologies if I am completely off topic of this blog post. I guess my point is that if one feels something is wrong with AoL or anything (and I did with the animal experience), one should trust that. For me, all those little "something is off" moments, added up to one big "something is really off". Though to be fair, I experienced this outside of AoL too.

fair_and_balanced said...

KLIM writes

--
and many are forced to do it, for ex. If one doesn't want to dance as teachers we were trained to force them to do so
--

I've been in tons of basic courses (cos they were close to free for repeaters) and there was a large variety of dancing techniques.. some people standing in place and others going all around the room. None of the teachers did any forcing that I recall. Forcing people to dance is certainly not a standard feature in intro courses.

I dont however know what goes on in teacher training.. I wouldnt be surprised that people are subjected to higher standards. I am surprised that you were a regular teacher (as you claim to be). Maybe the AOLF did lower their standards!

My take on your feelings is that perceptions of situations can legitimately vary. Someone may feel that a corporate group is abusive; another may feel they are ok but strive for excellence. These are not objective facts but rather construals of experience. You went into this a little immature and then experience all this stuff due to your unique expectations that arose from your specific background+personality. I have said as much as I wanted to say (I have very few links with AOL now.. no one forced me to do stuff that I didnt want to do and no one raises an eyebrow if I show up after a few years). These are regular boring people with a slightly different take on life. Hardly an exciting cult. Nothing close to an Osho Ashram or some Hippie commune (or what one hears of those days).

Anyways I have been posting here a bit (dont recall how I got here) and thank you for your hospitality.

Graise said...

"Someone may feel that a corporate group is abusive; another may feel they are ok but strive for excellence. These are not objective facts but rather construals of experience."

In corporate group abuses are rampant. But there are ways you can seek protection. There are cells/committees in almost all corporate houses which address sexual and other harassment issues. In the firm where I work, we have a legal cell through which we can address any issues. It is not a perfect world but there are at least some systems in place. However compared to that Guru communes are feudal in their operation and there is no scope for such just systems. The Guru's will reign's supreme. Everyone believes in the benevolence of the Guru which many a times misfires as guru is all too human behind all the garbs of divinity. The constant reverence they receive pump them up and their megalomania increases manifold like monarchs of yore.
So nothing is objective. So why have courts, police and law. Land grabbing is a construct of experience, so are rapes and abuse. Way to go.

"You went into this a little immature and then experience all this stuff due to your unique expectations that arose from your specific background+personality"

Klim went with expectations just like everyone else. But I guess it was not unique expectations. What was unique was the experience of abuse and financial frauds which is corroborated with many others here.

Now what?????????? said...

Please read this too :)

http://bawandinesh.name/gurudev-speaks/

KLIM and CO. said...

We discussed this letter a few months back. It was posted in Guruphiliac long time ago. We, on this side, all agreed it further confirmed his narcissistic psychopathic tendencies. If he himself lived the knowledge, or at least, a few of the lines written, the AoL would be a totally different organization and there would be truly happier teachers behind the fake-it-until-you-make-it smile.

A few years back, I would have also cheered this discourse. Today I read it with embarrassment. It is megalomaniac arrogant manipulative psychopathic. He seems to be me like the kind of person who would rape or beat up someone and then with a nasty grin in his face say, "But you liked it I am sure. If you say the contrary, it will only be because your prana is low, it's just love upside down. Anyway, I just freed you from a major karma."

Too bad AoL true-believers cannot see this today. Again, I understand, I was in their shoes too. It is easy to lose it there and to believe "we are the world and we shall save it!" Cheers.

Roger said...

Now what?????????? said...
Please read this too :)

http://bawandinesh.name/gurudev-speaks/

I have visited this Bawa Dinesh blog and write them to read this blog of Artofliving. But, they have not dared to publish my comment. KLIM has atleast published your comment.

fair_and_balanced said...

The AOLF USA accounts (which are available online) are remarkably clean and none of the principal officers are paid anything substantial (if anything). There is documented yearly transfer of funds to the India organization which is a foundation with a governing body of trustees. Many public non-profits in the USA are full of financial shenanigans (payments to consultants, boondoggles and the like). By comparison, AOLF USA is clean and lean. I do agree that financial transparency is a good thing and AOLF as a USA non-profit complies in this regard. If we buy your theory, we should regard AOLF senior volunteers, including board members as zombies who are slaving away for years at the behest of a master manipulator! Are you serious?

IAmNotSurprised said...

I dont think a truly enlightened guru would say "If they think I have no right to exist on this planet, then they can crucify me; I am afraid neither of death nor of being defamed. I am not afraid, because nothing can destroy me."

A true guru doesnt need to defend himself. Why does he need to defend himself, if he is the Ultimate? Plus who is saying that he is afraid. He sounds defensive and insecure. And saying cruicify me? Either he playing on followers' guilt or a Christ wannabe.

And the comments of his followers are pretty lame too. It was as if they were waiting for the Guru's affirmation that he is not fake.

Gopal said...

Many Babas have been exposed recently in India in land-grabbing, prostitution and other rackets.

"Baba, Baba, black sheep! Have you any more to fool!" - most of these businessmen (also known as babas or gurus) are making fools out of us. But, we are ourselves to be blamed. I have always tried to learn from everyone (even if a suspect Baba) but without giving money, time or energy to them. Hence, I never had to shed tears like many other credulous, sentimental people who fall for Guru psycho-babble. It is a big mistake. But, those who felt cheated, should show courage and come up with proper action to expose such fraud-Babas. At least, they will help save others from falling into the same trap of deceit.

Enough materials are present on internet to guide true seekers to theory and techniques of the science of spirituality. Real Guru is within. Sivananda's free books are a great beginning for anyone.

Anonymous said...

@Now what...

Do you notice he always responds to criticism with emotional histrionics. Be it this one, or the response to Javed Akhtar. So much so for being centered. He does not like being criticized (and neither do many of the other teachers in AOL).

Btw....some of the comments on Bawa's blog are hilarious...These people sound very immature..they just cannot take any criticism. Seems like AOL is a codependent support system, for fools who just don't want to face reality.

Anonymous said...

KLIM: "psychological dissonance" is written all over your response.

Don't you think that there is bound to be dissonance on the spiritual path. You are unlearning, societal programming and learning to be follow your heart. Conflict between old and new is inevitable - it is what makes the spiritual path so tough. Everyone is going to feel the dissonance, even if guru is ok.

Holding him accountable is not a devotee's job - it is for others to do.

marge said...

If you have experienced sexual cohersion/abuse of any sorts go to the relevant authorities and report it.

P Naik said...

Wider publicity to these blogs will help to save millions from being emptied out of their hard-earned money. Keep your money. No need to pay any guru for a few lessons in breathing. There are plenty of books, videos, Youtube and other things you can do on your own to get what you think SSRS will give you. What for do people need a Kundalini arousal? What is the benefit other than a boast? Keep it simple, serve the needy and helpless or if you can't do that, just be serene, joyous, get a pizza and a beer and get a walk in the park. That's the real art of living, not paying some dude in India to learn how to breathe!!

KLIM and CO. said...

JA has become a follower of the blog! Interesting. Policing the activities or in the hope to save us all from the bad karma of "bad-mouthing" his/her guru?