Wednesday, January 27, 2010

The 3 letter unspoken word: S E X

How many times have we heard Ravishankar say, “Even mosquitoes do it! Dinosaurs did it! You have been doing it so many life times! How much can you rub your nose against each other?” On the one hand, he made sure he let everyone know sex is part of the history of humankind, but on the other, he encouraged celibacy to many of his teachers, and in the course for young adults there is a chapter on sex: do pranayamas, take cold showers when you have sexual thoughts/urges.

In other words, it is normal, but take a cold shower when you feel the urge, because it is not good. It is inevitable everyone ends up interpreting these messages in different ways, and unfortunately, most people take it as sex is bad.

I know of a teacher who did not have sex during the days he taught the course because he was sure his energy would be affected. I knew of another who every time an assistant arrived to the course after having spent the previous night with a partner, would flip out and accuse him/her of showing up with “bad energy”. I knew of someone else who felt so guilty about sex he’d actually do it only in the bathroom and then meditate a lot to wash out his impurities. I knew teachers who got married but could not consummate because they felt inappropriate. I knew people who would turn RS’s picture around “to do it”. I knew of teachers who simply craved so much for sex yet Ravishankar dissuaded them from having it by imposing fearful thoughts in them like, “You were not cut out for sex, you are too weak for it, your health will be affected. If you have sex, you will get sick. If you have sex, you will get distracted. If you have sex you will not get enlightened.” Of course, these individuals would hold as much as they could, and then go crazy, and then feel guilty about it. I’ve heard him tell young boys, “Just focus in me, you are not meant for relationships this lifetime. Why do you need someone else when you have me? Keep you eyes only on me.” Even his swamis and rishis have issues with sex. We know of at least a rishi who still today cheats on his wife, right in her face!

Has AoL not learned from the Catholic church?! All the interpretations, the lack of direct addressing the issue, the lack of transparency, the concepts created a weird world of horny but repressed individuals that express it, eventually, in the form of aggression or dissociation, lies, taking many cold showers, doing excessive meditations, and promiscuity.

Many teachers, especially senior teachers take advantage of their status. Women fall for them like bees for honey, not knowing they are just being used for sex. Female teachers pretending to be virgins or untouchables. I knew of one who everywhere she went made a point to inform she was virgin, and then someone who was hosting her found out she was bringing men to the house while they went to work, by finding used condoms in her room and the reports of the maid. The one million dollar question everyone asked for a long time in the West was, “Did Philip and Rajshree have sex?” They pretended to be “just friends” but wherever they went, they slept in the same room. Yet, he projected to be a monk and she the most of all virgin people. (Does the word “histrionic” come to mind?). It was such a mystery people actually got mad and confused when Philip married (someone else, since Ravishankar never approved his relationship with Rajshree).

Unfortunately, there are even stories of male teachers raping female students or teachers, and other forms of perversion. The inner circle knew about this. We simply did not talk about it. It was shameful, both for the victim and for us who represented an organization, knowing the situation and not doing anything about it. When reported to Ravishankar, he simply ignored them and turned the victims into the problem. Of course, he had to keep his senior boys content and relieved, and again, who would listen to a woman with rape stories inside the AoL, especially when the “stars” were the aggressors - advanced course teachers, meditation teachers, TTC teachers? Under the excuse, “Guruji knows everything”, if he did not do anything about it, it meant the women were being drama queens and needy of attention.

Ravishankar often explained he could not have women in his room until late hours because people would misinterpret. “The two major reasons for scandal”, he said, “are sex and money.” It was his way to comfort the women who also wanted “to play”, like the boys, until late hours at night. Maybe he thinks the world is gullible but actually people are more suspicious of him hanging out until late with “the boys.” Especially hand picked boys, entering and exiting in different batches. Some spend the night with him, but leave the room early in the morning before anyone finds out.

The very few who I know dared speak out were quickly “taken care of” by spreading rumors of “psychological instability” and suddenly, would disappear from the organization. I was very sad to hear from one of them later defend him when I challenged him about the stories he once spoke about in detail. This young man had clearly been sexually abused and was going through a delicate sexual confusion himself. He felt so ashamed, he could not follow the conversation, and finally, explained he did not feel he was a victim, Guruji loves him, he did it for his growth. And once in a while, pop the question, “You mean, on top or under the underwear?”

What does it matter if it is on top or under the underwear, for heaven’s sake! Many teachers who have left and with whom I have spoken about this later, also ask the same question: “You mean on top or under the underwear?” Somehow, we all knew about at least one story, and thus, the same question, but we always found ways to protect the secret and keep it safely guarded. As we start to share more details, after passing the “underwear” question, the reaction is usually, “Oh God.” At that time, it was about surviving in dissonance. It is painful to admit it about one’s beloved Guru. Even today, as I write, I feel akward about it.

I have, however, trouble accepting people, who know men who have been raped by the guru, excuse it with arguments such as, “Oh, they are adults. Oh, it was for their growth. Oh, but Guruji loved them. Oh, but they got his grace.” Can sexual assault be justified in any form? Or, that noone has denounced him or made it public, not even anonymously! I know he threatens, I understand the shame, the guilt, the conflict, the pain. But, for heaven’s sake, it’s been going on for decades and it is not just 1, 2, 3 cases, and it keeps going on. It is going on with some young lad as we speak.

I once approached a teacher who hang out a lot in his room about the stories of a boy who came out with accusations. I gave him details, trying to understand if the boy was losing it or if his accusations were real. The teacher’s reply was more shocking. He laughed and lightly said it happened all the time to a group of them: Guruji touches them to release the kundalini and relieve their sexual tension, so that they can focus in their seva and not think about women.

Is it just me or are you frowning too?

But notice, not everyone has the privilege to release his/her kundalini! Only a few selected group of young men (young pretty men) and, I guess women have no chances of releasing anything this lifetime!

In intimate settings, sometimes, teachers, we’d ask each other if we believed these stories, if Guruji is celibate or not. We’d never dare confirm an answer, but everyone always agreed, “If he is sexually active, he definitely likes boys.”

Allowing the rapes of his female devotees is just as wrong as him sexually abusing his male devotees. There is no kundalini or enlightenment that justifies any of these two acts. Whether on top or under the underwear, I guess, even within a “spiritual” community, keep your pants on, their hands off, and do not talk to strangers. Just like your mother once taught you.

(When leaving comments, please be considerate and respectful. Keep in mind someone who has suffered a form of sexual abuse in the AoL may be reading the blog. I have spoken to several of these victims and they still suffer of the trauma of the abuses).

103 comments:

alison said...

wow, you are really putting this out there?

sri sri ravi shankar has sexual relationships with young boys?

is this what you are saying?

this could be the end of guruji.

he has got the big centers in LA, washington and texas now and there will be a lot of web searches for AOL and sri sri as they start promoting themselves

they will see this blog, are you prepared for the fall out?

good luck.

Sighing Baba said...

Here we go again with another set of accusations against an Indian "Guru".
I wonder if they are just susceptible to these accusations since they are monks and anytime boys are seen with them at late hours, the assumption comes right up.

Guilty until proven innocent, perhaps?
Possibly just stories made up by enterprising "victims" with an agenda to get more attention?
Its hard to know the truth anymore from the internet and "reports".

How can one be certain the accusations are real?

Renaissance Man said...

"The two major reasons for scandal”, he said, “are sex and money."

Ravi Shankar's right here. If this controversy extends beyond the pages of this blog - this post may have serious implications for Shankar's career as a guru. your post is one of the most thought provoking yet, i trust your intentions.

Even the most revered individuals sometimes have hidden dark sides. I'm glad you've made this post.

chriswilliams said...

Well, why am I not surprised? It breaks my heart to read such reports. I've been reading your blog for a while now and was thinking of where the S word would pop up and sure enough, it did so today! I feel very sorry for the guys who were used and abused. This is very bad! I've heard similar stories about Sai baba and I think it was BBC who made a movie about him called "the secret swami"...this was about his secret homosexual life. I never heard about Gurus trying to "free" kundalini using sex, until I came across the Sai baba stories and now your blog about SSRS. I only hope people can begin to understand that when Gurus get to stuff like sex, it's about time to draw a line. For all you know, all this sexual activity could give people STDs and not to mention the trauma....uh, it's just too much! I mean, to live with the thought that the guy on your altar is the guy who sexually used you? It's practically murder! I've read material where Gurus openly accept the sexual scandals they were involved in, but instead of labeling them as scandals, they merely say it was consensual sex. Well, what sort of respect remains between the Guru and disciple if they have consensual sex? This becomes all the more awkward because the guys are young, vulnerable and are ready to accept the sugar-coated words of "freeing kundalini" or "burning karma" or whatever. I pray that God heals their souls. I didn't know SSRS to be such a hypocrite - advising his chelas to be celibate while he's having all the sex he wants himself. Wake up dear fellow seekers, don't support such nonsense! If sex would free up kundalini, so many male and female prostitutes across the world would be levitating by now! Don't let cult brainwashing get you! Reclaim your sanity...go out and talk to people outside your cult for a change. Remove that false veil of "the world" or "low prana people". All humans are equally wise and stupid. Don't break your families, friends and relations for the sake of an org. Stay safe, stay happy. Sending warm hugs of sympathy and understanding to all those who've been used by you know who...chris.

Jivani said...

I'm very sorry to hear this. Actually, people coming forward and speaking out about sexual abuse at Kripalu, was what caused an initial explosion, ousting of the Guru, and eventual healing. Unfortunately, there were many, many people who came forward with sexual abuse stories. I imagine this might also be the case with AoL.

I hope one day that like Kripalu, AoL will be able to honestly talk about this, that the people involved will get the help they may need, and that AoL may go on to thrive without abuse. I think this blog is a good first step.

It is so, so very hard to get this out in the open and to stop it, but it can be done in my opinion. Stories like this blog post are precisely why I would never attend an AoL course or recommend anyone to do it. Having seen many friends live through abuses by a Guru, I simply cannot get past this to partake in the positive aspects of AoL.

Gopal Krishna said...

Sexual abuse by Sri Sri seems to be beyond my imagination to conceive, though, I accept some of his disciples may have a downfall. Touching some male disciple's genital for awakening kundalini is something which is not heard of in mainstream spirituality. But, still it is not same as sexual abuse. We often see little boys playing with their genitals and we also have fun by touching their genitals - just to make fun. I am sure, some elders would have played like that with me and you also when we were 1-2 year old. But, how can that be considered abuse?

Breaking celibacy means having sexual thoughts and loosing vital fluids. A touch is not sexual if the intention is not sexual. But, I do agree that Gurus should avoid doing this with adult boys even if it is a method for awakening kundalini or balancing mooladhara chakra. And the reason is just to avoid getting scandalized by narrow-minded people. Sri Sri may not be an enlightened, but at least he seems to be an advanced yogi to me. If even people like me who have been doing sadhana for just last 5-6 years, find celibacy challenging, but within reach, why would an advanced yogi has any problem with it?

My 2-cents: do 5 min sarvangasana (or sirsasana) whenever lustful thoughts trouble you. The prana will move back effortlessly towards higher chakras and mind will get free from lust without any direct mental effort. No need for cold-water bath or feelings of struggle if one applies this. And do at least 1 hour yoga-practice whole life during 3 am to 6 am daily without even a day's break. Purity of early morning sadhana will stave off all non-sense passions very coolly. This technique practise for 1-3 months will solve laziness problem completely and habit of waking up early morning will get developed solidly.

Regards,
Gopal

Anonymous said...

This is unbelievable and horrible.
In earlier posts, it was mainly doubts about AOL functioning, utilisation of money for social purpose or personal purpose, benefits or harms of Sudarshan Kriya etc. but, this is most serious allegation.
I hope you have collected valid information before positing this issue.

KLIM & CO. said...

Like I've written earlier, I don't write anything that I have not lived first-hand or heard from people who have lived it first-hand. I do realize the risk I take by writing about these things. But the fact is, I am UNFORTUNATELY not making anything up. The only problem, I find, is many who know about these stories have, like me, chosen to remain silent. I even recently called one of the men who confessed one of these stories to me to apologize for having labeling him as "nut". What would I have done with my devotion to the guru and my whole life, paused, and dedicated to him, if his accusations were correct? Unfortunately, I later met someone else, and someone else, and then, people who knew someone elses. There are too many secrets one holds and that one avoids to explore in the AoL. SSRS is a brilliant charismatic cult leader. Even when he "sins", we learned to defend him. I am sure that, if exposed to this issue, he will find another brilliant way to turn it around and make this blog into the problem. Used, abused and misused.

Anonymous said...

I have been guessing for quite some time about the trustworthyness of AOL. Having attended the basic course 2 times and experienced the 'Kriya', I had my own doubts because this method was a unique one and is a variation from the conventional pranayamas. I always doubted the reason behind which is 'SSRS' invented Kriya after 10 days silence. Come on man. What a joke. If he is a true saint, he should not take a single penny and should talk less and do more. Now, ever since you had created this blog, I was very happy to read the anti-AOL messages and stories. But finally as expected, this post has come. I am very glad that the truth is coming out. Klim, Your blog should be an eye-opener for all, including WHO and many other organizations and Governments. I only long that people should realize all these Gurus and should apply rational thinking before 'Surrendering' to a Guru.

Honest John said...

As Sighing Baba posed, again, how do you REAllY know FIRSTHAND about these "stories", Klim?

Stories are stories.

Be clear as to your sources and their reliability. Don't just state you know of stories and have heard from others. The stories about Maharishi in India turned out to be wild accusations, as later admitted by Mia Farrow and some of the Beatles.
Otherwise, this is a witch-hunt, which we all know back in the Salem days turned out to be a big lie by a bunch of teenage girls...

KLIM & CO. said...

"John", you mean you want me to post the names of the people involved in order to prove this is not a witch hunt? Dear, I am not out to get anyone, I am simply doing something I should have done long time ago. I just wished others who also know of such cases spoke up. They should have years ago. Truth hurts. It hurt me too back then.

KLIM & CO. said...

Gopal dear, you need to read about "dissonance".

Anonymous said...

Hi Klim

This is a very serious matter,sorry to be
outspoken but were you asked to satisfy
his carnal desires?

If you can look into your
heart and answer this question without
fear I promise that I forward this
blog to every centre and organisers
all over rhe wirld.

KLIM & CO. said...

I am not his type to satisfy his carnal desires, dear.

And I did look deep inside, without fears, before publishing this article, just as much as I inquired deeply, over the years, anyone who approached to me after having lived through such situations, deeply disturbed, or those who were just approached by others who went through something similar. When similar stories occur in different countries and continents, to people who don't even know each other, you know something is wrong. Someone is not making stories - men who were sexually abused by his holiness himself, and women who were raped by teachers. My own sexual abuse stories within the movement are of another kind, which also happens a lot in the organization, but that belongs to another separate topic, article. It is a tough subject: sex, especially when it creates such controversial feelings and when talking about someone who many people regard as HOLY - me included for many years. I know how uncomfortable it gets. Having been threatened by them and knowing what they are capable of, believe me, I am not doing this without any sense of responsibility. UNFORTUNATELY, I am not making up the stories, I wished I was, for the sake of those who are still suffering, and fortunately, I am not his type to touch, and more.

Anonymous said...

I had always doubted AOL. Having attended the basic course 2 times and still not able to fully accept 'Kriya' as beneficial etc. I somewhat didnt' like the AOL promotion which used to happen after the course days. They used to sell SriSri Books and CD's and also Sri-Sri-Ayurveda. Why a 'Guru' aspires to be an industrialist? He should stop with teaching spirituality, and leave it at it. What is the need to expand the organization by having Sri Sri Ayurveda etc? I didn't understand at all. To substantiate all these, this blog presents lot of information which are really good, if they are 'True'. It is but natural to expect that this blog, and in particular this 'Post' reaches thousands of 'Victims', and all these victims rise up to the occasion and speak up. Klim, I understand your intentions and strongly believe that more and more people associated with AOL come out in the open and speak up.

Anonymous said...

Atleast from my experience being around Sri Sri, and keenly observing him at many different events, I'm far from believeing such aquisitions. For sometime I've been observing his clear big eyes to see what he looks/stares at when so many attractions around him. I've never seen so far any lustful looks of him. Somehow I always find dispassion, and depth in his eyes, never surfacial lusty looks. Anyways, its just my personal observation.

If it is about some teachers and volunteers of AOL, I would say "quite possible". I've seen most of the even senior teachers/ rishi's/ swami's have not reached that state of saintly dispassion, so there could be scope for suspicion.

I had been volunteering for AOL for quite sometime. One day I happened to take my sister to volunteer for organizing an event. It was clearly evident for me that so many guys were hitting on my sister from the moment she entered, including some senior teachers, few married guys too! Most did'nt knew she was my sister, and I could observe the colors of the volunteers there. All were finding oppurtunity to hug her in name of belongingness, and I wondered, how come the same guys had never shown their belongingness to me? And when my sister told she did'nt know to drive, so she cant come to volunteer daily, atleast a handful of guys pounced that moment to offer free ride daily. I was just sitting back watching for a while, and felt weird..concerned about my sister and shocked by the act of teacher and volunteers. After two days of volunteering, I just thought its safe my sister dont involve in AOL, and be a prey for the desires of those insane volunteers & teachers, disguising themselves as people with belongingness and pure love, and saying vasudaivakutumbakam, just to be able to get cosy & physical with the other sex.

Yes, from my eperience and observations I can accept suspicion on rishi's, teachers & volunteers, but not SSRS.

Anonymous said...

I thought there was some truth in what you were saying until now. I have been with AOL for 8 years, not a teacher yet, I have seen Sri Sri very closely, and there is absolutely nothing that I have seen that would point to what you are saying. You are a liar, shame on you!If you have any decency left in you then either provide proof or remove this blog, else get ready for a law suite supported and backed by 100,000 AOL volunteers!

Anonymous said...

bravo KLIM.this was to come one day.i am quite comfortable in believing this.history tells us close link between gurus and sex(please refer to book stripping the gurus- available on net). psychologically gurus in general are 'run away from home' kids having narcissistic personality trait.hyper sexuality and aberrant sexual behavior is common to such people. aberrant/abnormal runs away from home, enlightens himself, becomes a guru,and than enlightens the educated & affluent.gurus & sex in general are as inseparable as sea water and salt. congratulations KLIM. this blog might change the way people look at AOL.
thetheaffluent lot

Anonymous said...

i know many aol teachers have low moral values.many teachers past history before joining is also indicative of extra marital affairs.how they can remain without sex.one can change many things but sexual behavior rarely changes.even if ssrs is not involved,how can one justifies involvement of other teachers.

Prairie Princess said...

Wow! I had seen stories on the internet about Ravi Ravi having gay relationships with chelas in the organization. My time in AoL was brief and I did not experience any of this type of harassment. Nor had I heard tales of rape by senior teachers..would not surprise me though. Some of them seemed very screwed up in their attitudes about sex. Rajshree is a piece of work and seems like a very angry woman. Never met Philip. Knew people who spoke well of him and his wife. Had heard tales of Ravi Ravi telling people whom they might marry or not. What fool would listen to that type of advice? Made me question some of those people's intelligence. Also knew of married people who were celibate, more or less. Ick. This organization is sicker than I thought. Thanks, KLIM, for unveiling the monster.

Anonymous said...

KLIM after going through all this (your experience with aol as a whole)for so long how could you preserve and maintain your sanity.post it sometime for benefit of other struggling ones.at end of the day what feeling you have- winning the lost game, caching the missed bus, frustration on you self destructing past years, all or what.is well that ends well

Anonymous said...

@Gopal Krishna

Are you serious? Very sorry to inform you what those 'adults' of your childhood did to you is NOT normal.

a humble witness said...

Dear Klim,

Thank you for sharing this--I am certainly not surprised. I know it must not have been easy to share such delicate information. It takes courage to put the truth out there, as frankly and bluntly as you have. I consider myself so very fortunate that I had the good sense to remain on the periphery of the organization and not step too close to or get too involved with all the inner-circle abuse. I can certainly attest to the fact that ravi shankar always had an entourage of young "pretty" boys (mostly Indian) hanging around him, with free access to his room until late hours of the night, but I had no idea what really went on in there until now. "Raising kundalini" is such a lame excuse for getting his freak on. How can people not see through that?

I can only hope that this post reaches some of ravishankar's would-be victims and help to steer them clear from his perversions. I also hope that those who have been abused by ravishankar or his teachers can find some solace in the fact that they are not alone. But unfortunately, I am sure there are many who have endured the abuse, but still justify it in their own way and feel that it was for their own good.

Klim, you have done a great service today to those who have the ears to listen.

Vedavati said...

Ravi Ravi was nicknamed as 'Chakka' (eunnuch) by his classmates in Saint Joseph college, Bangalore where he did his undergrad studies. Ask the student batch of 1969. He never did his graduation all those stories of advanced degree in physics at 17 years is complte bogus.
In modern secular India alternative sexuality (LGBT) is not widely accepted as in say Netherlands or Britain. Hijras in India form a community of their own and are completely ostracised and live doing sex work and begging. So are gays and lesbians. The other alternative for many of these people is getting into religious groups. Hindu religion and culture has in some measure accepted many sexual deviations and marital groupings - the ardhanarishwars, shikandis, Vishnu's Mohini, polyandry like in Draupadi and so on. The fluidity of masculine and feminine qualities are well accepted in tantra traditions. One can find a lot of people practising alternatie sexuality in many spiritual groups. Ramdev's tirade against homosexuality and his so called yogic cure is certainly not in consonance with the yogic and tantric culture. He gets it from the patriarchial thought structure of right wing Hindu fundamentalists. Even the monastic order of the catholic church or the buddhist sangha has been a refuge for many LGBTs.
I am of course not condoning any abuse or forced acts. But if it happens between consenting adults as enlightened people we should not be complaining. The hypocrycy and double speak is quite another matter which probably has resulted from a conservative soceity which ostracizes sexual deviants .

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 12:51 PM who writes :

" Atleast from my experience being around Sri Sri, and keenly observing him at many different events.....Yes, from my eperience and observations I can accept suspicion on rishi's, teachers & volunteers,.."

Thank you for such refreshing candour. I see your point . That is exactly what a senior respectable person told me years earlier when I raised these alleged accusations " let the victim decide....you keep quiet...today's state of affairs is such ...".

The same thing happened with Puttaparthi Baba. No one came forward to testify in the enquiry that took place recently. Chavans , Gavaskars etc fall at his feet.

When I forwarded other facts about the chit fund , TAFE etc to an ardent influential RSS memeber also SSRS devotee , he wrote back "....such people serve the needs of the time " studded with some quotations.

I would definitely not place SSRS in the overtly criminal league as kalki avatard , nirmala mataji , premananda etc.

If it is sexual abuse , why exonerate ND Tiwaris & his cronies who knew his nefarious exploits ? Rathores & cannibals of Noida who devoured young children ?

That way sexual abuse is a given in India in all walks of life. What does not take place in the needlessly glorified joint families in India ? Because the victim gets blamed , many are reluctant to come out & speak. This is the way Indian society has been shrugging off everything apathetically.

I am touched by your genuine concern for your sister. My so called brother behaved like a duryodhana(n).

Raji said...

Well done Klim & company. I have have witnessed one such sexual enticement and abuse by a senior AOL teacher in Bangalore. I hope you guys are all located in US. Had you been located in India by this time the AOL goons would have tracked you and shut you down. AOL folks would not go for a lawsuit as they have too many skeletons in their cupboards.

Gopal Krishna said...

@Anonymous: To emphasize, it is NORMAL for adults to play like this sometimes with very small babies in some cultures. But, I agree in those cultures where 'priests' representing the ONLY SON of GOD are known to sexually abuse even small children (scandals in USA, Australia, etc), these things may not be normal. And perhaps, you belong to such a culture and hence, your mind finds it abnormal.

And please do not write comments as anonymous unless it is a life-threatening situation for you to express such views. Because it just makes the mind more sick to write any thing that comes in the mind without bothering about public decency.

Cheers

veena said...

Wow what an expose. I always doubted AOL. i have not seen ravi ravi in person but his mannerisms and the things i hear about him makes him suspect. in our office we have an AOL predator who preys on the girls. he goes around soliciting to join their course and once there he intrudes into their lives. a sucker to the core. this guy is the most hated person in our office. one girl even complained to the management and threatned to file a sexual harrasment case againt him. ever since he has been operating silently but old habits die hard.

Rishi Viryananda said...

Touching genitals of young men is a common symptom of sexual repression in men. The celebate christian, jain, buddhist, hindu monks have done it before and are doing it. This is one more proof of all religion being equal, equally corrupt and repressive.
No surprises if ravishankar does it. This is nothing to do with Kundalini rising at all. Ravishankar has a puritanical attitude towards sex. I wonder how people can learn art of living from a person who claims to have never had sex in his life. I would like somebody more normal and less perverse. For me sex is a major part of art of living. These lopsided morons cant teach me anything.
People like Ravishankar lack a basic sense of human intimacy. The hugging stuff in AOL or ammachi hugging every damn person who meets her is not initmacy. That is only an expression of their frustration. Real intimacy happens only when there is love and affection and physical sharing with people. This lack is expressed in all these touching both 'inside underwear or on top'.

reshma said...

klim i like your blog..) i have shared it with many of my friends. you are making awar eof what we all knew ans suspected about aol. this is better sevsa than anything else. keep up the good work.
btw what is this inside underwear and or top thing. i just dont get it. can you explain in detail.

Anonymous said...

alison

"sri sri ravi shankar has sexual relationships with young boys?
is this what you are saying?
this could be the end of guruji."

Nope. not at all. In sai baba's ashram four young men were murdered right under his nose. The police did not even register a case against him. His movement's grown strong since. The thing which has slowed down the movement a bit is sai baba's health. the supreme avatar is wheelchaired, gone senile and can't speak two sentences coherently.
Same with asaram bapu. Young children were murdered in his ashram. One day later when the whole of indian media swooped in In one of the most disgusting spectacles of guru control even the parents of the murdered chidren were defending the guru. Probably they were paid and for many parents in rural india children are dispensible. Not much value is attached to human life.
Ravishankar will continue and no doubt about it. There are enough suckers born every minute.

Anonymous said...

Wrong choice of words by Gopal to label it " normal ".

I would say it is WIDELY PREVALENT & we fail to condemn it.

Most often so called trustworthy caretakers & relatives resort to sexual abuse of the vulnerable & defenceless in our society. And children are unable to report it right away to their parents. When the parents themselves are found hobnobbing with the abusers.

Read Pinki Virani's ' Bitter Chocolate ' & watch Mira Nair's Monsoon Wedding.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous says :

" Not much value is attached to human life ".

Can't agree with you more.

KLIM & CO. said...

In most modern societies, playing with a baby's genitals or anyone's genitals at any age is considered sexual abuse. There is a crime called, "pedophilia", btw. If there are people in the AoL who consider this acceptable, well then I understand all the sexual deviation that goes on in the movement, in the name of "spirituality."

In the name of spirituality - this is what is wrong. Call things by what it is. You want to have sex? Call it, "I want to have sex", instead of, "I will help you reach enlightenment." I can then not label it as "two consenting adults" in an act. There is a reason why the victims of sexual abuse of the AoL still feel traumatized and ashamed. It is your freaking "God", someone you looked up to, who you considered your "saviour/ spiritual guide", who fooled you, who fondled you, who ... It is already bad knowing he has cheated us with regards to funding, seva, the techniques, etc.

The very old timers, we all knew when he gave more attention to a new boy. The comment automatically was, "Oh, he is into that pretty boy." There were instances we simply did not understand why he was giving so much attention or wanted to make someone definitely not capable, a teacher. Again, all teachers would comment, "He is a pretty boy. He likes pretty boys." This is the difference between the very old timers and the new ones. We had more time with him in the room and we knew the not that famous Sri Sri Ravishankar. In other words, we saw more of him, not the big character he is now playing for everyone.

Behind the doors and for the public. Two different things.

It would be great to confirm more stories about his education and his time at St.Joseph's. I met one of his classmates once. I was so devoted I thought the man was so privileged to have grown up in class with him! Instead of asking him if it was true every kid followed him everywhere, that he attracted everyone, that he'd say he would travel all around the world. It never occurred to me back then, many of his stories were, indeed, just stories.

KLIM & CO. said...

A law suit is what the victims of these abuses and former exploited and abused teachers should have done to the AoL long time ago to prevent all the frauds and abuses that keep going on at all levels.

Like someone very well wrote earlier, they got too much very well hidden in the closet.

Anonymous said...

Klim ,

That it has a name called pedophilia & that it is a punishable offence I came to know much later in my life. As a victim I was blamed in the name of 'karma'. Btw , this has been going on for generations in India.

In India it is invariably the woman who has to suffer & face ostracism.

Gopal Krishna said...

As I always said, it is wrong for strangers or even distant relatives to do so.

I will repeat that touch is not sexual without sexual intention. Only a pervert will consider a small baby as anything other than a baby. Since we have some bad cases of abuse in society, hence such laws have been made for the protection of children from strangers and even some sick relatives. And parents should definitely be protective about the children.

About Sri Sri or any other Guru: I never agree they have any right to do such thing to anyone. If people like Buddha, Rama Maharshi, etc need not use this method (if at all this is a method), why should these people need to awaken so-called kundalini by touching genitals of male disciples? It definitely is fishy for any so-called Guru to indulge in such things and should never be accepted by anyone.

I wish, all these accusations are false and Sri Sri is genuine. But, in case he is not, he should be exposed and countered as a moral duty. Right now, I will give him and AOL benefit of doubt - innocent till proven guilty.

Cheers

KLIM & CO. said...

I am truly sorry to learn that.

We may not know it is a crime yet victims of it know something is wrong. It is know they suffer the consequences of it the rest of their lives. Feelings of shame, guilt and anger are there. Victims of sexual abuse by AoL teachers and/or RS also feel that way, and perhaps even more confused and hurt. It is inconceivable that someone "more evolved" will do harm to anyone (just like it is inconceivable a parent or a relative will do any harm to a child). The mistake is there: considering them highly evolved, and them using their power to take advantage of others.

I like this Chinese proverb: Wisdom is calling things by their true name.

Anonymous said...

Klim,

Recently , a schoolgirl who was being tutored by the schoolteacher himself was taken to a circuithouse in the pretext of some special classes where she was raped repeated by the teacher & 4 men with political connections.

On returning home she broke down & told her mother.

What can anyone do in India when politicians are involved ? If she had complained what would have followed next is acid throwing to arson.

When I was going to go the police station to complain about unsavoury conduct of an auto driver , the rickshaw puller advised me:-

" Never ever go to the police whatever be the problem. You would end up regretting it".

Deplorable yes , but that is the state of affairs in India. Which is why I keep repeating India is not America.

KLIM & CO. said...

Gopal, you don't get it right? "Awakening the kundalini" is just an excuse to confuse the ones abused, justify and "legalize" the act, and keep them in secretive mood the rest of their lives. They are indebted to him by making them "the chosen" ones - both in a good and bad way. You still believe he actually does it to raise their kundalini? Wake up dear! I can tell you, those boys did not wake any kundalini in that way! And the women abused either!

Anonymous said...

Gopal Krishna is in violent denial mode.

There are lots & lots of perverts in Indian society. It is just impossible for any parent to keep breathing down the necks of their children 24 hrs.

I am grateful to America as they don't recoil from talking about it. And punishing.

We are too sanctimonious & in perennial denial.

Anonymous said...

Egregiously galling is Gopal's response. Bereft of empathy & compassion. Only sickening verbiage.

I was forced to dump my child in a creche for a month. I am not going to launch into what happened.

Goplas of India would purr perversely.

KLIM & CO. said...

Unfortunately it happens in many societies, not just India. The difference is some countries have strict laws, law enforcement, etc. Please let's not turn this, again, into a debate about whether India sucks or not. This blog is not for that sort of debate. Ravishankar is obviously an awful representative of his country and culture. We hope no more sexual abuses, of boys and women, happen in the AoL. In fact, any kind of abuse, not just sexual. I wished many who know about these cases would also come up and speak up too. It is the least we can do.

Anonymous said...

Klim,

I want to know straight up. Are you accusing sri sri of sex with minors or are you accusing him having sex with adult males. There is a big difference. One is criminal and the other is not criminal, though it may be immoral and hypocritical. You said you talked to a victim of abuse. Was he of the age of consent when the incident happened? This may not be a big distinction for you but it is for me. Please answer me simple and straight up. Thank you.

Jivani said...

Klim,
I posted earlier about Kripalu. I don't mean to dwell on Kripalu but it's the only experience I have with this and I have gained a lot of knowledge about abuse through Kripalu.

So, I want to add to my post:
You have basically described my EXACT experience with Kripalu in many of your posts, including this one. When you say RS was with boys to raise the kundalini, that was the exact same message of Amrit Desai when he sexually abused women "in the name of enlightenment". I've said this before in posts, I honestly do not see how you could make this up. It's just too similar. You couldn't possibly be that good at making things up to destroy AOL.

I understand how people could be disbelieving. I commend people for wanting facts before making accusations. But, as you said, it's very hard to provide facts because victims must be protected. Personally, I am not at all surprised about the sexual abuse in any way. I guess having lived through it (to be clear, I was not one of the women being sexually abused), I was able to recognize it instantly in RS. I only waited for you to give the details. So, while it's important to make sure we have facts before condemning someone, there's something to be said for learning from past experiences and gut feelings. I believe you "in my gut". Had I not closely witnessed Guru sexual abuse, I don't think I would be in the position today of spotting it in RS so easily.

So, for those who think KLIM is lying, please at least entertain the idea that he could be telling the truth. I say this with absolute respect and know that each of us has to find the truth for ourselves.

KLIM-you are doing one of the greatest services imaginable.

Gopal Krishna said...

@Anonymous: I am not in denial mode. Perverts are present in large numbers in every society, including unfortunately India also. As Klim rightly said, "Developing countries like India have not been able to have good law enforcement mechanism." Things have been improving a bit these days, but much needs to be done.

Let us avoid "India versus West" debate as no culture or country as a whole can be considered spiritually evolved. Every country has got its share of horrible crimes against humanity.

As a conscious human beings, let us own our responsibility and work towards improving the situation in our country whether it is India, USA, or whatever.

I suggest people to teach yoga to children at the age of 7-8 years - this will balance their emotions and harmones when they grow up. This is the internal side of reform. External side is working for a clean politics and good social, political and financial institutions.

I conclude my point with a sincere regret for having hurt anyone's sensibilities. All my points were more like a neutral view-point which might have hurt those who have got some actual bad experiences.

Peace and love.

KLIM & CO. said...

"I want to know straight up. Are you accusing sri sri of sex with minors or are you accusing him having sex with adult males."

I myself know of cases of young men, not kids, although I have heard of abuses going on with the boys of the Vedic school. Maybe someone can provide information about that.

Anyhow, does it really make a difference if it is minors or adults he/they is/are targeting? Should the rape/sexual abuse of a woman/man be evaluated based on age? Justified or not, based on age?

I don't know about you, but in my world, abuse is abuse.

KLIM & CO. said...

Jivani, thank you. Yes, you are right, I am UNFORTUNATELY not inventing these stories, and as I stated in earlier posts, I do not write about anything I have not had direct experience or exposure to. Even writing and publishing this article was a challenge given the big secrets I knew I was revealing and the possibility of AoL retaliation. One gets accustomed to living with big secrets that one learned to protect and justify for one's own survival.

Proof Please! said...

99% of these responses have done nothing to verify or substantiate the TRUTH beyond these accusations of SRS.
Most comments have launched into peripheral anecdotes about Indian society or teachers of AOL.
STAY ON THE TOPIC!
We are dealing with a most serious accusation of SRS and the ONLY person here who has said anything about 2nd hand (not first hand)knowledge of any such activities is KLIM.
There is nothing in KLIM's posts that would lead one to conclude these accusations are true, only his report that someone else told him of this.
Again, why is everyone jumping on the bandwagon to accuse SRS of such things, if they have NO FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE either?
Just like the Salem Witch Trials.

No, I'm not in denial, but please, back up your accusations with facts, not just someone else "telling" you this that you like or trust since you knew them before.
This is no way to objectively pass judgment or conclude anything, but apparently is a great way to write a blog or entry into the National Enquirer.
To all you blind lemmings jumping on the bandwagon to condemn SRS for something you know next to nothing about, put your money where your mouth is and show us all some real proof.
Not the BS anecdotes about other teachers- that's not what this post was about.

Anonymous said...

Klim,

You say that abuse is abuse and that it is all the same to you. It is not to me. Verbal abuse if different than physical abuse in my mind. Society sees it differently also. Sex with minors is criminal and sex with adults that is not physically forced is not. Please don't get me wrong. I am not defending a guru having sex with their adult devotees. I think that is wrong. In a guru/disciple relationship there isn't psychological equality. The guru has a distinct advantage and can use that to get the devotee to do things they don't want to do. This is wrong and immoral, but it isn't criminal.

Anonymous said...

After reading this non-sense article, we as a group of common citizens, who are working professional and who have seen witness miracles and transformations in peoples lives, pity on your state of mind. Our sincere advice to you as a well-wishers, is to get yourself immediately checked by a good psychatrist who will restore your sanity and prevent you from landing up in the mental asylum. After reading this we are sure that, you will be inspired to write some more rubbish; so we have created enough work for you for the next 20 days, to come up with such more exilirating pieces. Probably this is your bread and butter. So you carry on with your dirty job, christ was also was crucified by people like you. In every age saints and gods have always been maligned again by people like you. So it does not come as a surprise when you make these false allegations against the saint of this millenium. We are related to people who know Sri Sri the last 20 years. Thanks to God that there have always been saints, are existing today and will be many more in the coming years, so that they can eliminate negativity created by sick people like you and thereby maintain the balance in the universe.

Lakshmi said...

To the AoL acolytes here:
Many of you are educated professionals. Whatever you have today, you owe it to developments made possible by rational human endeavors in science and technology. Do yourself a favor, take some time out of wisdom tapes and satsangs, and read two thin books:

1. Influence science and practice by Robert Cialdini.
2. The God delusion by Richard Dawkins.

Coming to the point of Ravi's sexploits, it is not surprising. Sex is the way most life sustains. His mannerisms always suggested alternate interests, and thanks to KLIM there is confirmation. It is nothing to be ashamed of, if he likes boys. He should just give up this garb of "god incarnate" in order to touch their genitals. Why do we need to create fake gods. Every homo sapian is exactly the same biologically. Cultural conditioning may alter the outward expressions, but inner desires and motivations are pretty much the same all over the world.

Anonymous said...

You crossed your line with this one. One suggestion. Rumor is dangerous to perpetrate. Why are you hiding behind a pseudonym of Klim and Co. If you are that concerned about revealing all the details why not start by revealing your identity first.

Wienerdog said...

"That way sexual abuse is a given in India in all walks of life. What does not take place in the needlessly glorified joint families in India ? "

HAHAHAHHA This is the strangest comment yet. Having been born and brought up in the West but spending summers with my grandparents and extended family in India, I have always been shocked at how many of my Western American friends (girls) were messed with sexually by their own family members or close family friends, yet how absolutely foreign this concept was amongst my Indian friends. Maybe it's the concept of karma keeping people in line but I honestly cannot think of EVEN ONE instance of aberrant sexual behavior amongst family members of any Indian I have ever known, yet the sad tales of pre pubescent Western girls and boys being touched, fondled, or oogled by their own family and family friends are too numerous to mention. I always felt very sad for them. No wonder they all developed eating disorders and drug addictions later on!

Maybe it's the everpresent food items shaped like giant dildos (sausages) or the nightly pastime of drinking that turns these horny western men onto their own daughters, who knows. The Austrian father Fritzel who locked his own daughter in the basement and procreated with her was an extreme, but lesser forms of this are sadly common in the West.

In my happy extended family, the men slept in one room and the women in another, and couples were discreetely given privacy. My grandmother told me stories as I fell to sleep and these memories are among my most blissful. My brother, in the men's room has similar memories of jokes and bedtime stories at night and wisdom sharing. Everyone was up at 6 am to lead a busy productive yet full of fun day and as a child I felt nothing but safe and valued. While my Western latchkey friends heated up their microwave processed snacks after school, my mother or grandmother would greet me with a fresh nourishing meal with vegetables, whole grains, and subtle spices. I could go to any of my aunts, uncles, grandparents for any problem I had and they would guide me to the best of their abilities. It was idyllic.

I think site traffic was getting low so KLIM decided to drop this bombshell. Call Ravi shady, but I don't believe he is sexual with any of his followers.

I did know Phillip and think he's a pretty authentic guy. Who did he marry? When I met him, he and Rajshree were obviously a couple. I didn'y much know her but noticed she did have a good sense of humor and wit.

Anonymous said...

Wienerdog ,

Obviously you are talking about something you know. I wrote what I am familiar with in our extended families.

You have pleasant stories to narrate . Happy to hear that.

There are proper authorities one can complain to in the West which is why we read of some action being taken; some put behind bars. Some get acquitted also.

Relatively it is much more complicated here. Messed up owing to corruption , gender biases etc.

Klim & Gopal ,

Again you are endorsing this erroneous notion I am into India bashing. We are talking about SSRS . Where a mention of Puttaparthi Baba etc become unavoidable. All of them are linked to various politicians & celebs in India. The latter also seek them as it takes two to tango.

When these get mentioned you needlessly misconstrue calling it India bashing. Am reminded of "more loyal than the king ".

Unfortunately people like chriswilliams & Rishi Viryananda are few in number.

Gopals insisting on benefit of doubt or wilful detractors looking for india bashing like the blind men looking for non existent black cat in a dark room are many.

Anonymous said...

" Most comments have launched into peripheral anecdotes about Indian society or teachers of AOL.
STAY ON THE TOPIC!


It is again mostly Indians of Indian society that throng aol , promote him. Skriya for long has been compulsorily thrust in many schools & colleges. Ditto with Puttaparthi Baba.

Indians' ambivalent attitudes towards sexual abuse , gender biases cannot but be mentioned . It is the same attitudes that brush aside voices of dissent & scepticism.

Be it politicinas like ND Tiwari , police chief like Rathore , filmstars , aam janata or haloed godmenwomen all exist in a seamless society.

Don't worry or panic. Most of these godmen always ensure they are well protected.

Which is why I consider that counsel given by an old man the sanest. He said " let the victim decide , give up this desire to reform/ confront/ investigate. As that is the state of affairs".

Anonymous said...

Mr Klim and co.
I am a voracious reader and after reading your articles and your language, it is very clear that your intentions are perverted.
No decent person would display anybody's personal life. While I dont know them, you have no right to tear off anybody's personal life in such a derogatory language. In fact you have presented your level to the world. Looks like you are on a mission.
May god give you some sanity.

KLIM & CO. said...

It is so very interesting how AoL people forget to "live their knowledge" and their "spirituality" when their buttons are pushed. Ravishankar is not doing a good job. Unlike him, we, a group of professionals and former devotees/volunteers/teachers of the AoL, do not care about numbers and followers. Certainly this blog is not used for publicity, propaganda, no mission other than one's personal exercise to share whatever should have been said when in the group. You can curse, insult, threat, challenge anyone of us. If you think I am being nasty by divulging secrets of the organization, that are hard for you to digest and thus, you think I/we are lying, you are being just as nasty showing that level of verbal and psychological aggression. Having been threatened, cursed, insulted, lied about by your holiness himself and his holy teachers, believe me, those tactics won't help at all.

For those who need to read this and get something out of it, great, for those who cannot take certain information, great too. We are just as entitled to say whatever we want, just as much as RS is with his lies about being enlightened, doing great seva, being celibate.

You may know of a family who knows him for 20 years. Nice. I knew him personally for 20 years, fed him and made his beds, combed his hairs and did his laundry and iron his clothes. This is what I know, saw and experienced. Realize that there will be not enough evidence that will satisfy you. You want names? pictures of the act? videotape better? rape kit tests? DNA? Confessions? Nothing will make you happy, you will think it is fabrication regardless. Because of reactions like yours, victims of sexual abuse in the AoL have kept quiet and frightened, and threatened by the organization itself. We care we share? Lovely people, it is an organization only in the periphery, if you are allowed to step in closer and closer, you start knowing the real stuff behind the glamor and marketing. I MYSELF have behaved like you when someone would come to confess such stories. Ugly truths also need to be said. I wished I was making up these stories. Whether you believe or not, LIVE YOUR KNOWLEDGE. Maybe that way, we all start believing more in the "grace of your guru."

Ravishankar is a mastermind indeed.

anon21 said...

KLIM, you do realize that the timing of this is what is turning people off. If you believed ravishankar was guilty of something so atrocious as pedophilia and rape, shouldn't it have been in the first few blog posts?

To me your account sounds like the rehashed allegations against sai baba. Personally, I don't believe it at all because it doesn't sound believable from my experience. I have wondered about the money and the technique, but ravishankar is constantly surrounded by devotees who hound him.
He never, from what I saw, got much alone time and even if devotees left his room, they did so in groups. Sorry, but this allegation sounds highly implausible to me.

Notice the last few posts of yours had fewer and fewer comments as people were losing interest. I think that may have motivated this last allegation.

KLIM & CO. said...

People, you really believe the show AoL/SSRS give, even with the small meetings? You really think you are getting what you see. Innocence is nice, or as it goes, "ignorance is bliss." He is an intelligent man. Stuff will not happen in the eyes of the public and in situations where marketing is working its charm, nor with people who will implicate him, and if they do, he gets rid of them effectively and fearfully! But listen, I/we don't care whether you believe or not. I am not out here to convince anyone. This is just a place for me and others to express our experiences. I've head this in me for too many years! It feels great to finally be able to speak some truth instead of all that crap we are brain-washed to repeat by TTC, DSN, Part 2, satsangs, etc. If you did not live it this way, then "be with your experience" as Ravi says, but let us who have, keep ours. Whether people comment less or more, read more or less, please note, again, I shall repeat myself, unlike SSRS, I/we are not into numbers, fame and popularity. Unlike SSRS, we do not fabricate stories in order to get "clients." There is a reason why so many of us have left the organization. It is not because they lost "the grace." The lack of transparency and ethics is getting overboard, and note, it won't change. And again, whether we agree on this, and many other points, or not, really, this is a free world, and as I have written many times, not everyone needs to think your Guruji is a holy man free of any kind of imperfections.

Anonymous said...

KLIM there is no reason to to disbelief. his mannerism is the strongest supporting point even if you dont consider first or second hand information.this assesment rarely lets you down.truth can not be concealed or faked for very long.

Anonymous said...

Klim vulnerable people will still find solace and comfort with him, hardly anything can be done for them. history tells us that gurus and babas have 'treated' more vulnerable/susceptible people than psychiatrists. even credible scientific studies have shown the supportive role of spirituality and psycho therapy.in fact the biggest strength of all such spiritual movement is unstable ,normal to mildly disordered people.

KLIM & CO. said...

Anon21, dear dear, no. There is no correlation between number of comments and number of readers. That has not changed at all. Why did I not publish this before? Hey, this was tough subject even for me to write, something I had many years to process, even as an AoL teacher knowing these cases, and decide whether I'd expose myself to all the AoL aggression that I knew would come up. But please note the following correction: I AM NOT SAYING RS IS A PEDOPHILE. He likes young men. I use the word "boy" the same way he does to refer to these young men, as he calls them, "boys". If he was a pedophile, even I would need time to digest that piece of information, starting this very moment! And again, I repeat, unlike RS, we don't care about numbers, fame and popularity. This blog is just a space to express what we have lived and experienced. You people need to start deprogramming yourselves from thinking like him, in terms of numbers and popularity!

Anonymous said...

KLim you should answer why it took so long to expose this aspect.or better you can broaden it by replying about following things. this will give insight into dynamics of belief & thought struggle while in a cult like this-
1-what were factors for your getting into aol
2-when and how you felt that you were being cheated.
3- what is the difference between what is presented by aol, what is usually perceived by a new recruit, and what is the reality at different stages of aol life.

Anonymous said...

KLIM kindly post sometime about-
1-how ssrs manages media
2 what are the interests of aol full and part time teachers. what keeps them hooked to the organization for long.
3- how/who manages ssrs's political propaganda< how his meetings with national/international leaders are arranged.
4-how many people are there in inner circle. who are chief strategy makers.

KLIM & CO. said...

Actually, great questions. I will take time to write about them. Why I took so long? Did I really? This blog started end of November and I still have so many things, secrets to put out - again, as personal exercise for myself, there is no mission here. As difficult as it is for people to conceive this idea, read about it, it is for me to write about it and publish it. It is not just me, many of us kept these secrets, and some cannot even talk about out loud without the need to run to meditate after it because they feel guilty, dirty, etc. Some old timers left the organization because of these cases. I am unfortunately not inventing but I don't have DNA tests, pictures, videos, and of course I cannot give out names. It is a difficult subject. Why does it take many victims of abuse to come out only decades later? Why some never talk about it?

And again, this blog is not propaganda nor does it have the mission to nail down anyone. See the title. This is a space for us to share our stories. Whenever we do it, does it really matter? Earlier or later?

Anonymous said...

i would love to have your comments on large propaganda functions organized with his presence.
1 aims and objectives of such functions
2-financial aspect of such functions. centralized or decentralized. how much breathing space local organizers have.
3 questions asked to ssrs looks to be 'planted' ones. is there a match fixing.
4-many of ssrs quotes are self contradictory irrefutable and paradoxical possibly to leave people confused at the end to indirectly control their mind.
5-has aol employed persons to take care of adverse remarks on net
6- what is the usual fate of aol teachers

Art of Leaving said...

Dear KLIM, thank so much for being so brave to post this article on Ravishankar, AoL and sex. I am not surprised at all. I suspected as much and more as far as RS and sexual relations are concerned.

To those who can’t believe that RS is anything but a saintly celibate and who has never seen him cast “lustful looks” at anyone - perhaps you have not observed him very closely? Or you block from your mind what you do not wish to see? I saw from the start that RS knows he has sensual charm and that he uses it. Anyway, I think few gay men would fail to pick up the dynamics. Actually anyone (whether gay or straight or bi or whatever) who has ever played a courting game will pick up the dynamics, unless they have very strong vested interests in preserving the supposed desirelessness and celibate sanctity of their Master.

I may not have had my "kundalini" and "sexual tension" "released" through his enlightened physical touch, but I would have been a very easy and willing victim for him. I now think that if I had been a more pliable and malleable person, if I had submitted myself fully to the organisational culture in the ashram, there was a good chance things might have come to that point. But I was too much of an unpredictable misfit and I guess that saved me.

Within the first few days of him seeing me, he started using his charm on me, and it was not a “platonic” charm. Forget about "releasing" any sexual tension, he deliberately CREATED sexual tension in me. At first I was very confused about some of the looks he was giving me. I thought, but this is not spiritual, this is not the dynamics I expected between my long-awaited Guru and myself. I expected something “higher”, some light and sattvic calming presence that would take me deep into meditation. Not those teasing looks that set my whole body aglow with desire. Not those shy, abashed, “blushing” sideways glances that said “Come and get me, I want to be pursued”, or those mischievous, playful stares that said, “I know you want Me, but I’m out of reach!”

I quickly justified things to myself. I thought perhaps I am spiritually still at a very low level, that there was obviously still sexual desire in me, so he was starting me out at that level. I assumed he knew what he was doing and what my needs were, and that he would use these desires and gradually transform them into something higher. He became the Master as Divine Lover. Soon I became familiar with the Bhakti traditions and tales of Krishna and the gopis - how Krishna played his cruel games of teasing and separation with them to increase their longing and attachment to him. It all fitted – my own Divine Lover Master was putting me through the exact same dynamics. I thought He clearly knew my nature and that he chose this as the most suitable path for me. Unfortunately, unlike the Gopis, I didn’t end up getting Enlightenment out of the whole process, but suffered emotional breakdown.

I know AoL people will react to all this saying it was all my imagination and projection, blah, blah, blah. But you will have to admit that RS and His Divine Presence hardly had a spiritual or health-enhancing effect on me. I ended up much more messed-up, “tamasic” and rajasic” than before.

Art of Leaving said...

Anon: "get ready for a law suite supported and backed by 100,000 AOL volunteers".

- Well, I guess they need somewhere to put all that repressed sexual aggression into...

If your Guruji is really so innocent and pure, then what need of a fight to prove it? You know, somewhere he teaches on Patanjali's Yoga Sutras that if a person has mastered ahimsa/harmlessness, then all beings will become friendly in his/her presence. But clearly neither he, nor his followers take that teaching seriously.

Narendra said...

KLIM,
Like Anon 30/01/2010 2.25pm, I have the same question for you.
All these facts/information disclosed by you in this post and earlier posts, comes to your knowledge over a long period of time.
You may have justified all this information if you were in AOL and disclosed by some one else. At what moment you have decided to leave AOL?
What was Final nail on the Coffin?

pavitra said...

if ravi ravi likes young boys I dunno what is the problem with aol people.Look you should look at your guru in ordinary glasses and then you will see reality. we clearly see that ravi ravi dyes his hair, apply face cream, anti ageing cream, moisturiser, eye mascara and other makeup. then why not have sex also. he wants to look good with all makeup to impress people and feel good. nothing wrong with it. nothing wrong with gay sex also. you see we have this notion that guru should be celibate, guru has no anger. guru is compeltely detached, 100% love and so on. no human being is like that. ravi ravi is also human being. he can say he is divine and everything is divine and so on. these are all common guru langauge and words and words are just words. only people who are 100% love and all that fancy stuff are movie stars and celebrities which media shows in magazines. shah rukh khan, aishwarya rai, amithabh bachan all people are always smiling. in hollywood richard gere is so calm, jackie chan, julia roberts, tom hanks and others they are more charming than ravi ravi. why not worship them also. ravi ravi is also like that a creation of media. ravi ravi is seen always smiling because whenever he is in public he is always smiling other times as klim said he has other emotions too. sometimes anger also as he is running big business and he gets angry.
see even all my photographs from childhood to now i am always smiling. but in life it is different. because life has many colors. if you are always smiling you should go to mental hospital because there you will find so many people smiling or laughing all the time.

Anonymous said...

give us some proof that ssrv had all these scandals publicity freak give us answers dont go round the bush

Anonymous said...

Kudos to you for writing this blog. I really hope some enterprising media people follow this story and expose the deception for what it is. I think it is time AOL people stop living in denial and see things as they are.

I don't doubt RS was genuinely good at some time...but pride has led to his downfall.
Really corruption of the best is the worst. Reminds me of that movie - "All the king's men". These things happen to the best of people.

Anonymous said...

KLIM..

i have been reading your blog for a while. I was involved with art of living for more than 10 years to the point of TTC. There is whole lot in AOL that pisses me of , especially in recent days. Mainly the hunger for more participants and the hunger for money. I cant believe the constant surge in course fees. I feel that AOL is heading the TM way. And i agree with a whole lot you said in previous posts. But i think you did cross the line with this post i guess.

Everything in the world has its good or bad. And thats true for AOL too. For me , what AOL has done is : it picked up me up from nowhere and took me to a state of such amazing spiritual knowledge, so much freedom that i can never be unhappy in my life. The scriptures and the non duality which lot of people struggle to "get", have been clear to me in no time. And it dissolved the very "me". And i was an atheist and was a hedonist not knowing anything about such beautiful knowledge. And anyone who has tasted the bliss of spiritual knowledge and devotion would say that nothing in the world is compares to it .And thats what Sri sri has done to me .
Now, i dont agree with the money craziness and the feverishness for more people. On the other hand, those people who organised the course i took , hadn't asked me to take the course, i wouldn't have been in this beautiful journey . So i believe the feverishness to spread AOL is also a blessing . And in a world where terrorism is spread with a vengeance, love and peace needs to be spread with such feverishness too. AOL is no longer a big part of my life , I have moved on to much quiet Ramana maharshi. But without Sri Sri , i wouldnt have been here where i am today .And i would be eternally grateful to "Him" for that. And sri sri was much more sweeter and simple years before i thought.

Being with Sri sri,i absolutely dont think the sex thing is true at all.And your accounts are heresay only .There is no way to verify it .

anyways, i would like to hear your full story in one big post or a succession of posts. And as the last comment : what exactly was the last nail on the coffin ?

with all the best wishes for your healing

KLIM & CO. said...

There are so many secrets in the AoL, isn't it so? There are great people doing a wonderful job keeping them and preventing them from letting any of it out. Those who need for more evidence, proof, whatever, will never be satisfied, even if I provided with names, colors, sizes, favorite foods. People, believe it or don't believe it. Again, I just share what I KNOW, not heresay. Even if I said, it happened to me, gosh, you'd be demanding for the same. I hate to use these words but, that is the nature of the mind. What to do. And again, there are so many sub world and sub groups in the AoL. 10 years, even as a teacher, does not mean you got to know many things. It is not all teachers who are allowed to be in the inner inner most circle of information. But yes, there are many dark secrets in ths AoL and people like me, we did a great job managing them for RS.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @9:01PM ,

That is precisely the point !

Yoga Vaasishtham , Ashtavakra Samhithai , Patanjali Yoga sutrams NONE of these belong to these godmen. They are recycling & marketing Spirituality with fabricated stories about their background.

Ramana Bhagavan/ Kaanchi Shankaracharya , Seshadri Swamigal & 18 Siddhars DID not market , did not lobby for Nobel Peace Prize.

Swami Chinamayanada himself observed :-

" Bhagavan Ramana is the Original.
we are all traders".

You must be familiar with the analogy of devil organizing the Truth .

Anonymous said...

Hi KLIM,

Are you saying, the "boys" shared with you that -

1. SSRS had sex with them
or
2. SSRS touched them inappropriately?

or both?

Very difficult to believe that SSRS would do any of the above from what I have observed!

Also, did you find it out only recently, after spending 20 years with him?

Thanks,
truthprevails@email.com

deep said...

All izz Well, All izz Well !!

Anonymous said...

Hi Klim

I share the same sentiments as Anonymous 11.51. Guruji was a very simple and down to earth person when he first started AOL. The pride started creeping in after the opening of the Visalakshi Mandap - more foreigners which translated to more USD. Greed for fame and power got over him, another big event was planned i.e. the Silver Jubilee celebrations - that was when people started asking questions and looking at AOL differently. Croes of rupees which would have helped many of the underprivileged were squandered on lighted billboards, full page adverts in the mainstream media - is this what a welfare organisation does?

There are a lot of questions and doubts in peoples minds but whatever said and done, Guruji has pulled me up from my wasted existence and made me see life in perspective - I learnt to live life simply without expectations. I left the organisation when the first signs of materialism and power became evident and went on to become a yoga teacher with the Bihar school of yoga.

Whatever Guruji has done or will do in the future, its really his karma to hoodwink the millions who look upon him as a divine soul. I will always be eternally grateful to him - and thats where my association with AOL ends.

KLIM, I hope that in time to come you will divulge some of the dark secrets in AOL - it will be good for people to know the truth about this organisation.

May God give you the strength to heal and to get back to the real life.

Art of Leaving said...

“Even if I said, it happened to me, gosh, you'd be demanding for the same.”

Perfectly true. Actually, no amount of evidence will do it for the true believers – not even getting “called into the closed chambers for getting some help with their Kundalini”, as chriswilliams nicely put it. At that point they will just rise to the next level of justification, rationalisation and denial. I know I myself was in love enough to be able to justify such things had they happened to me or had I heard about them at that time.

One only stops justifying and rationalising stuff once you get to a point where all the torture and emotional cruelty RS puts you through become utterly unbearable. Before reaching that point, you’re able to justify a lot of his abuse of others and yourself - in the hope that the Guru always knows best, represents the Universal Mind, and what not.

Unfortunately, merely seeing him put others through hell, is usually not enough to get one to the point of questioning/rejecting him as Guru. It’s most often one’s own pain that speaks the loudest, that eventually gets you to thoroughly question the Guru. When others are the target of his abuse, you may find it upsetting, but it is easier to rationalise. When you yourself become the target, especially over a prolonged period, then it’s a different story. Fortunately, I quite quickly reached the “unbearable point”, otherwise I might have been an AoL teacher today.

betty said...

re anon February 1, 2010 9:01 PM,

One of the most insidious things that people like Ravi Shankar and his guru Maharishi, and many others, have done is claim credit for what naturally occurs within the mind/psyche/soul of people who learn their techniques. Very good things do happen for some, and for some the good effects last a long time. For others the good eventually turns to horror. But to claim for themselves the crdit for what happens for a few because they teach a commonly known breathing or meditation technique, is arrogance incarnate. These techniques were not created or discovered by these guys. The hard work to promote them is done by unpaid devotees. Extravagant money goes to the guru and his family. But the ultimate crime is taking credit for what happens within the mind and body. If there is a God, God should get the credit for creating the human nervous system, that it works this way. If there is no God, Nature should get the credit, not She She and his ilk. These guys are nothing but pimps.

KLIM & CO. said...

truth pevails,
I knew about this already when I was serving "god", but just as all AoLers I was quite dissonant and I went with believing it was all a bunch of bull and obviously, the problem never was with the guru nor the organization, but with the ones showing some imperfections about them. It took me all these years to have the balls to make it public. We'd discuss it amongst a few teachers, but with a lot of shame and quietly. Even talking about it was difficult. I know too many stories and I know other teachers with exactly the same stories from other men. I know people who have left the organization due to this, and yet, it has been kept all these years hidden in the closet. I repeat again, the word "boys" is the way he uses them, we are talking about young men, not children. I pray at least he is not that twisted. There are many unbelievable things about RS, and many things only people closest to him know. Like I wrote before, there are many sub groups and sub circles in the AoL, and not all the groups got to know many things about him and what went on in the background.

Anonymous said...

How many times these gurus tell/educate you to do and excel in your own work/job? they rather encourage to withdraw from work by provoking to devote more & more time.silently they encourage (or don't discourage) parting family ties. gradually they make you more & more selfish while claiming it otherwise. ...And all the time poor devotee is made to think he in enlightened.

Anonymous said...

i dont think people become more efficient in their original profession/job. most of the time i have observed the opposite. but the devotees neither understand nor are willing to understand. these gurus are culprits of society as they snatch active working efficient persons and use them for cult propagation.

Anonymous said...

People with low self esteem, deception, lies, mass hysteria, loneliness even when surrounded, personality deterioration, loss of reasoning and may be 3 letter unspoken word...

welcome to AOL

if you are an abnormal/aberrant person,this should be your destination.
if you are a normal person you never require anything like AOL throughout your life.
May god give everybody enough wisdom to decide.

Anonymous said...

I know a friend who was abused by a senior senior teacher. "she was taking care of him, while he was givin a part 2 course in the city" and he kind of hypnotized her for sexual purposes and at the same time she was his maid... When I found out about it, it was time to leave this shit.

Anonymous said...

You seem to have lost it, Klim. While I admire your writing skills and also admire more than 20,000 hits, the content is absolutely a vent for your frustration with no truth and facts. There is place for everything in this world. There have been demons during the time of Rama, Krishna, Jesus and Buddha and there are bad elements now - so its not surprising!It’s easy to write nasty blogs and sit around your computer waiting for comments and savoring them - That is what a Gay does.

It’s tough to get out there and actually make a difference to the society. In an effort to expose the AOL, I pity you have exposed yourself - your character which has hit a new low. I know this is your blog and you are free to refute whatever that is against you.But its a challenge from me that your blog will not make an iota of difference to AOL and its service to the humanity. This is what Sri Sri has to say in response to such blogs.

"I have inherited an ancient lineage and my job is to further its cause. Neither by thought, nor through word, nor by deed, have I ever done any harm to anyone, nor will I ever do so in the future; it is simply not in my nature. Nobody can expose me because there is nothing to expose: I stand tall, clean and naked in front of the whole world.
I do whatever maximum good I can, and I inspire others to do so. These people who keep writing about me simply cannot leave me alone - they must be in deep love with me! (laughter) When they keep comparing me with other people all the time, I must have made a very deep impression on them. I cannot help it if they can’t get over me - that’s the way I am! If I am that bad and fake, they should simply be able to ignore me and move onto the truth –why are they are holding onto me, again and again?

If they are trying to teach me a lesson, if their intention is to correct me, then I’m sorry, I am incorrigible! (laughter)

If their idea is to stop people from coming to me, and if people do stop coming just by reading these blogs, then I really thank them; it is good for me, it reduces my responsibility! If they think I am doing this for publicity, they are unaware of the disadvantages of popularity. I pity them. Celebrities enjoy only popularity, but spiritual leaders have a huge responsibility with that popularity. People do not go to celebrities for guidance and blessings, but with spiritual leaders they do.

If they think I have no right to exist on this planet, then they can crucify me; I am afraid neither of death nor of being defamed. I am not afraid, because nothing can destroy me.

We do charity with the hard earned money from our courses. We are, of course, rich with people and with good character, and I am ready to share this wealth with anyone.
Lest they understand that their hatred is nothing but love standing upside down"

Without wasting anytime on your blogs, I am off to continue my service..Peace:)

Anonymous said...

Klim just see video- cult mind control( you tube) and post your comment how much of it is true for AOL I have never been to aol but having studied the spiritual movement psychology all over the world, i am of the opinion all operate in more or less similar way.this is one of the best eye opener video i have ever seen in my life conveying mammoth message in 12 minutes.
all concern please have a look.

Anonymous said...

...sorry the video in named 'mind control cults' & not cult mind control.
happy viewing.

KLIM & CO. said...

Oh yes. I remember reading that "response" by RS in Guruphiliac. It is funny how once you get out of Ravilandia, reading those smart ass replies of his, simply makes you laugh and feel like puking upon such high level of arrogance, manipulations and lies. A bunch of us fested from that letter. Everything, according to Ravi, revolves around him. I've never seen it, but he must have hell of a ginormous belly button! (or navel, like he calls it). For AoLers such a letter is a "YES THERE IS MY UNBEATABLE GURU!" For non-AoLers that is sign of big ego, manipulation, psychopathology. The way he manipulates his people and feeds on anything but spirituality is so evident in replies like those. Keep cheering, and let us keep frowning. I am glad I woke up and finally dared to see the truth. I am glad I am no longer in your shoes. I remember how that was like ... Happy seva darling.

KLIM & CO. said...

When I watched that video some time ago it totally hit home. It could not be more accurate! It is as if an expert went into the AoL, undercover, to take notes of its working mechanisms. Too perfect. If you are an AoLer, you may find watching this "low prana".

Thanks for the info.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

Peaceful Warrior said...

To anonymous who quoted RS's response -

Talk is cheap...Judge him by his actions - not words. He tells everyone that he is out to do service and help the world. But look at his actions carefully, and you will realize it is lust for power and fame masquerading as charity.

The Dude said...

Anonymous: "I have inherited an ancient lineage and my job is to further its cause"

The only lineage RS has inherited is that of Megalomaniac Mahesh. There is no ancient lineage... It is just a lie to lend authenticity. To americans it is just a stress-management technique- nothing to do with religion, and to Indians it is ancient vedic lineage. To others it is a charitable organization...he will tell you want you want to hear.

Can't you see the lies and manipulation. Use your brains, and stop living in denial.

Anonymous said...

Guru-worship is flawed. True self-discovery comes from self.

Wanderslust said...

Ravi Ravi's response to Jody's Guruphiliac blog is exteremely interesting. It shows that Ravi Ravi has all the characterstics of Megalomania, Narcissim and feigned granduer.
He claims he is incorrigible. my foot. Just tell this to people who have been so badly exploited by this man.

Anonymous said...

I have learnt some good practices from the aol. I am grateful for Guruji for that. I saw him even before the V Mantap was built- he was so simple and sincere- and I am sure he is still made that way. It must be a Karmic cycle taking on. I pray that things get alright with the organization.

As for me, I am out of aol- happily pursuing spirituality through knowledge sessions, chanting, meditation and seva activities. Again, I am grateful to the same God who brought me to aol (when I needed it) to have brought me out of aol as well.

KLIM & CO. said...

Again, I am not that person. Please find someone else to accuse until you hit the right name. BTW, tell me exactly what I should be scared of? Ravi and company? Or people like you who go wrongly accusing people and/or know things but remain hidden in a corner?

"Dear Klim ( xxx , whatever )

Some of what you say in the previous blogs is true. However, now you are talking about pure rumor.

Playing in a game way out of your league. Be scared, Be very scared !!!!"

Art of Leaving said...

Ravi Ravi Ravi: “These people who keep writing about me simply cannot leave me alone - they must be in deep love with me!”

Quite overwhelming, yes – the Narcissism. And to think that once upon a time I might have found it cute and endearing.

Ravi, healing from abuse takes a long time – whether the abuser was you or anyone else. So don’t make such a big deal of it. Writing about abuse and alerting others are part of the healing process. It is also about taking responsibility for rectifying what went wrong – an ability notoriously absent in you. And spare us the “I’m such a martyr for humanity” trip. If anything, you should be called to account for committing crimes against humanity.

Peaceful Warrior said...

There is nothing wrong in consensual sex, despite being it a shocking thing for devotees. However, the power dynamic between guru and a young chela is such that sex will never be consensual - even if someone likes to believe otherwise. People who think it is up to the victim to bring this up do not realize it is not a question of sex - but about abuse of power.

Somehow in RS's reality distortion field, intelligent people seem to justify these things, or deny they exist. What a tragedy!

Shiva Bhakta said...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/manage/#!/pages/Art-of-Liiving-AOL-is-a-scam-like-Amway/359964230409

Join the group AOL is a Scam on Facebook

Anonymous said...

"Ravi Ravi was nicknamed as 'Chakka' (eunnuch) by his classmates in Saint Joseph college, Bangalore where he did his undergrad studies. Ask the student batch of 1969. He never did his graduation all those stories of advanced degree in physics at 17 years is complte bogus."

Well, let's see. In 1969 I was 15 and since SSRS is 3 years younger than me, this would make him 12 years old and in college; in fact graduating from college! There's a bit of a credibility problem here!

Ravi said...

To anonymous who posted this as part of SSRS response to this blog:

"If their idea is to stop people from coming to me, and if people do stop coming just by reading these blogs, then I really thank them; it is good for me, "...

Hahahahahaha.....

It was suggested once to SSRS that he give up wearing white, pretending to be celibate, pull his hair back, wear blue jeans, and admit to the world (or even no one, just stop pretending) that he was gay or bi. His response was:

"But then all the Indian people would run away! I am doing what Maharishi couldn't do -- getting the Indian public...."

It was further argued to him that: "Then the only people remaining would be here just for your message, not your personality or preferences, and you would be free of this pretending!"

He persisted in his belief that the Indian public would condemn him, and it was his mission to 'get' them. Nothing should get in the way of it.

Anonymous said...

This blog makes perfect sense. stay away run away from AOL as much as you can. i just threw his photo today. was heading badly and totally towards becoming full time teacher. cant thank you enough for starting this blog.