Evidently, the last article: “The 3 letter unspoken word: sex” stirred some wild emotions, as it did to me every time I heard someone go through yet another similar situation. It took me almost 10 years to come to terms with it (I know people who left because of it), as it took me even more years to come to terms with many of the deceits and fraud I today recognize about the AoL and SSRS, which were obvious to friends and family. I don’t blame the AoLers who write in full blast aggression, possessed by anger and sometimes even too off centered to express themselves coherently. I don’t know what it does to you, but it does a lot of service to me by confirming the right decision I made of leaving the organization and RS. It helps me further confirm that the teachings of RS only create a hyper hysteria, fanaticism focused only in building his name, organization, numbers, fame and popularity, and it takes the individual nowhere in the spiritual growth, but only builds ego/narcissism, delusion, fanaticism. Practicing a breathing technique that actually induces hyperventilation and which he did not create himself as he claims, or a meditation that is an imitation of someone else’s that went wrong and whom he criticizes constantly, or delivering repetitive topics that are cleverly entitled, “Ashtavakra, Bhakti Sutras, Patanjalis”, naming the Yoga Vasistha, repeating like parrots: “opposite values are complimentary, accept people as they are, don’t see intentions behind people’s mistakes, don’t be a football of other’s opinions, the present moment is inevitable” are not an indication of spirituality nor evolution nor “goodness.” Spirituality is more than just reciting, reading scriptures, doing some technique. Spirituality is not about the activities one does, who one follows, what one eats.
Following is a comment the blog received, obviously posted under the wrong link. The person is comprehensively mad. But I understand because I, too, used to get out of myself whenever I heard “my guru” and “my organization” criticized. However, with the years, I also learned that I got mad when it was about things I actually was not sure about, that I myself, deep inside, doubted, or actually, because it simply hurt my true-believer-ego. Evidently, Mr. Ravishankar, the quality of your teachers and your teachings need to be improved because, sadly, your disciples cannot remain centered with that smile you insist they should have, not “living the knowledge”, like you’d diplomatically insist, “Come what may, keep your smile.” Don’t you say AoL offers the knowledge that makes one unshakeable? I am sure this kind of reaction does not make you happy either:
ronith has left a new comment on your post "Additional links":
u have no proof of all the bull u write show us some proof abouct all the bull u write even i can open a stupid blog like urs and write bull like u without any proof atleast i am not mindless like u and if u think u r so smart y cant u reveal ur identity show us some proof u publicity hogger
There was a time this kind of comment/people affected me. The aggression and psychosis within the organization greatly disturbed me even when I was a “true believer”. Today, even with all the bashing provoked by the sex subject, it only makes me laugh and feel at peace with my decision of leaving the AoL and further confirms what a sick community it is and what a poor education we got from “the holiness.”
Maybe AoLers reading this kind of comment rejoice and cheer it like men watching a football game – notorious behavior of highly spiritual people following a highly enlightened master.
Maybe some AoLers reading this kind of comment feel quietly embarrassed that one of their fellow peers can express himself in such way and is indeed a bad representation of the movement, teachings, guru.
Maybe those who are not AoLers but have done a course, relate to it and applaud it, and maybe some take it as an indication of what AoL really is not about and see the holes of the organization and teachings before further going into it and getting sucked by “the black hole”, like it happened to me and many others.
Maybe some former AoLers reading this kind of comment, feel the same effect it has for me, reassuring the decision of leaving and the relief of no longer belonging to that madness. Maybe some prefer that I don’t write about any of this. I know some prefer to leave it for “fate and karma to take care” and some are afraid of the bad things Ravishankar can do to people because they themselves have experienced them (myself included) - reasons why so many old timers and former teachers have not come forward a lot earlier.
Whatever it is, whoever it is, thank you. Thank you to you all who, nicely and violently, help me in my journey of recovery. Thank to the comments of aggressive AoLers - if I had any doubts left about SSRS, there no longer are any. If I had any fears left of him/them/you, because of the retaliation, threats, harassments, lies I experienced during and post AoL, I no longer have any. Little did I know how healing this blog and all the nasty comments would be for me (hopefully for others too). Thank you again to former members and to current members, even those who curse, insult, threat, etc. KLIM & co. You have made me stronger. You have set me free.
Will wrapping up with an “I belong to you” make anyone puke? Better not, no?
A sincere heart-felt thank you.
24 comments:
Klim ,
You did the right thing. By jettisoning SSRS. Trust his rabid footsoldiers to engage you in circular weird logic & total lack of cohesion.
The stakes are pretty high. He has a powerful hindutva lobby + money power. He has been shrewd enough to link with politicians in both congress & bjp .
I spent years wasting my energy & time convincing his sycophants this is NOT spirituality or hinduism. All that I heard was " ...does not matter...this way he is preventing conversions..indooism is in danger..".
SSRS has just the right soundbytes for a crowd of Christians & Muslims too.
Hence I focussed only on my healing. I am good.
Since the other thread has too many comments asking you for proof I am posting the following for the eyes of HAHAHAHA Wienerdog.
This is from an Indian woman brought up in India , now living abroad answering an Indian in violent denial like HAHAHAHA W:-
" Indian women have been conditioned to believe that they did something to invite undesirable male attention and to that extent they are at fault if they get molested. As such, the true number of molestation and rape incidents is never known.
Women will claim nothing 'really serious' in terms of "eve teasing" ever happened to them - they take credit in saying so even it were a complete lie. These are educated women, I am talking about.
They realize it is part of the Indian experience to be groped or touched in crowded public places and being in denial is sometimes their best defense.
In America, incidents will get reported because a woman is not socially stigmatized for being abused by a man.
I wonder if you live in a parallel universe where there is a country that resembles India somewhat. I have spent the majority of my life in India and have most of my family living there. We are in touch on a daily basis. I have never seen or heard any evidence of the Ram-Rajya you describe...
I have had girlfriends break down and cry as they have shared for the first time incidents of molestation that took place in their teens. These are grown women with children who have not been able to find a way to tell anyone about what happened ".
Continuing:
" ..So deeply ingrained is their sense of shame and feeling that they contributed somehow in being the victim that will not open up to men in their family who refuse to even acknowledge there is a very serious problem. The women can't do more than be sympathetic and that does not help...
I have yet to come across a desi woman who is financially independent in this country who is chomping at the bit to return to India...
If we consider the writings of Swami Vivekanada after his Chicago address, we learn that American women have about a 200 year head-start over us desis. And they have not been sitting around since that time.
Continuing:
" If desi men like yourself would spend a millionth of energy that you have expended here trying to provethat women live a charmed life in India, that country would be a very different place. But it is so much easier to point fingers at other countries and say "its no different in NYC". To compare a Delhi or Mumbai to NYC along any dimension is beyond laughable. Why even bother. But that is easiest to do so why bother fixing what's wrong with India. Be in denial until the day the evidence is so close to home that you cannot deny it even if you were missing all six senses.Until then gather all evidences of atrocities against women around the world and tell the women around you they are doing wonderful in India - living in heaven on earth.
Please continue do your part in advancing the India Shining narrative ....
Unless you are able to disprove that I am a woman born and raised in India and have been subject to a wide assortment of eve-teasing since my teens and do not know a single Indian woman whose experience has been any different from mine (do spare us the fiction about how your wife and daughters have never been harassed ever in their whole lives in India - you don't expect a desi woman to buy that. We happen to know the score only too well), there is nothing you can do to alter my so called slumdog narrative.....
Continuing :
"..Indian men will (as you can see even in this comment thread) flat out deny that abuse happens or is far more commonplace than in the developed world or offer faux sympathy at best without doing much to change anything ...
With the later,the attitude is a mix of resignation to karma and a complete lack of empathy. Yes, there are men who will walk the talk and go the distance to help women - they feel her suffering like it were their own - but they are too few in number to cause change in the pace and volume required in India.
I believe that women should be far more vocal and forthcoming with their stories. There are things I know about my girlfriends from India about abuse by close relatives and random men in public that they would never share with men in their families - husbands, brothers,fathers etc.
Since abusive behavior by men is so pervasive, they tend to be desensitized to a great extent. Minor infractions longer appear to be "abuse" to them. Unless something really bad happens it does not quite register.Just because all women in India go through it does not make it less bad - but women seem to find consolation in shared misery. Whether or not they look upon at it as abuse, the damage continues to happen - all the time.
When all women speak up and say it like it is, it would be impossible for men to ignore what is happening to those closest to them. It is no longer someone else's karma, or some other woman's problem. Only when women come out and talk about it candidly will change happen.
... you do the greatest disservice to your efforts at "presenting a more balanced perspective on India" when you dismiss the reality of several million women's daily life in India as mere "emotive personal anecdotes".
Abuse small or big, one time of habitual is emotionally scarring. That this actually needs explaining to you illustrates exactly why you are simply unqualified for the task you have chosen to undertake in commenting to this post....
I don't even want to hazard any guesses as to why that may appear to be a"balanced perspective" to you. I will leave that to the reader's imagination.
....the acceptable social norm in India of blaming the woman for everything that goes wrong with her - she asked for trouble and got what she deserved. The boy is blameless simply because he is a boy.
That Indian women don't question this "natural order" of things a lot more vociferously is what is the cruelest cut of all. They forget it could be their turn next and they would be the victim of ridicule and censure.
Being in position of professional power goes only so far. When she goes about the business of daily life outside the plush confines of her corner office - she is instantly reduced to the lowest common denominator - just a woman. The cab driver, the random "eve-teaser" in a crowded can do exactly what he wants with her and more likely than not he will get away with it. Her Rs 50 lakh per annum salary will not afford her any protection. She has to constantly worry about her safety and work her life around those concerns...."
Is this the last post. I request you to write all you know about this vicious cult. Dont go.
It is just a thank you note, not a farewell note ;)
Reading the quotes from avid supporters of RS made me remember my own blind devotion to the Guru. I heard myself so clearly in the posts. It was a ghost from the past. After going through deep healing from Guru abuses, what I found most psychologically interesting about my reactions to people calling my Guru a fake or saying he was sexually abusive, was my intense anger toward anyone who would dare say anything against the Guru. It made me crazy! Only now can I see that my anger was because I knew they were right.
My hope for anyone who has suffered abuses from AoL, is that they know that there are people who support them. There are people who will believe them and stand behind them if they speak out. I wish all the best to everyone in or on the periphery of AoL and all those who have chosen to leave.
I have to pose the question to all of you bloggers and readers:
Do you think its possible an enlightened person could have sexual desires and need to act on them, and also possibly be homosexual?
Sai Baba Freud:
Was Gandhi enlightened: Many such stories of sexual experiences with his female followers
Krishnamurti - had an affair with Nandini Mehta and others
The Muslim Prophet - had a number of wifes for his sexual pleasures.
Perhaps, as evolutionists suggest, sexual impulse is just a natural part of human existence, even for self-realized individuals.
Thank you also KLIM...you have a great style of writing and a nice way of handling the aggressive kind. Too sad that AoL supporters continue to attack in their blind faith. I think they would only realize what it's all about when they get called into the closed chambers for getting some help with their Kundalini! As for all those asking proof for your "allegations" and your balls,etc. well they need to realize that revealing your identity on the internet doesn't prove stuff about SSRS. I wonder why they are asking about proof as regards him - whether or not their guru has sex with young men shouldn't change anything in their lives, coz the guru is always doing what God wants him to do, right? So he has sex and asks you to be ceilbate...so he doesn't bother about your spiritual progress...so his family is getting rich off of your money...so what? He is just doing what God wants him to do :)
I am admirer of Osho for his knowledge, logic and study.
He has spoken and accepted openly about the Sex Energy. Speaking about Sex about 40 years ago in India, infront of thousands of people must have required tremendous courage and daring. Sex energy should be accepted and divereted for positive things. If it is repressed then what happens, can be noticed in the news relating to many Ashrams, so called saints etc.
Absence of proof does not necessarily mean proof of absence.
My question to aol people who are questioning klim is this. you know all this tarka, kutarka and vitarka stuff right. if you use vitarka then you should give benifit of doubt to klim and company. i think by attacking klim you are in the kutarka stream. why is it that aol people here are not able to come to terms that klim maybe right. why find wrongs in people. it's your own medicine you should take. right na..
chriswilliams ,
That Puttaparthi Saibaba story shown on BBC had to be heavily pruned & edited owing to armtwisting by BJP government in power then. It was linked to arms purchase from UK.
Do you recall the maliciously arrogant way Murli Manohar Joshi the minister talked to the female journalist ?? ( ....understand i am a minister... learn how to talk to a minister...something along those lines)
"Do you think its possible an enlightened person could have sexual desires and need to act on them, and also possibly be homosexual? "
Enlightened person means someone who does not identify himself with the body+mind complex - but rather sees themselves as consciousness.
I think sexual and other desires are there in everyonne - with lifestyle changes one can reduce their force - even master our emotions and urges - but the impulses will always be there. After all we are body and mind also.
ahhh , Klim , I somehow feel sorry for you , even after You have left this CULT , Your mind is still with SSRS and his organization .
I hope You find your peace ASAP .
All the very best
If a normal sort of guy wants to control his sex urges, all he must do is marry a woman in the 200-250 pound range! My wife looks like a jack-o-lantern in the 3rd week of November after a week of frost and rain, with the candle still in it! Sex urge? No problem!
Guess we know why he calls hisself She She now!
Ah darling! Thank you! I have already found and am in a lot peace. How can one not be sans Sri Sri, sans AoL, sans fraud, BS, and manipulations? No, no, I no longer have him/them in my mind, yet it does not mean I don't feel I have a responsibility to share my experiences, the dark hidden secrets and inconherences of the movement, or simply that I feel like doing so, with the hope it will help some not fall into the same shit I did, and those who feel guilty for having left. At least, having the other side out there, helps. Whatever people want to do with it, it is a free world. Wish you all the best too. Peace.
Actually the problem is not in the teachings, or the practices....it is in lack of accountability.
Usually these organization start with good intentions, and grow because of good work....but soon after the leaders have tasted success - they become proud and arrogant - thinking they can do no wrong. Being surrounded by sychophants does not help either. Couple this with unchecked power and easy access to money - it is a disaster waiting to happen.
Human nature being what it is - systems should be designed with checks and balances...no matter how pure or saintly someone is. At one level we are all divine - but at another level we are all human also.
Klim
I think your blog is thought provoking for those who are part and parcel of AOL and who seldom can believe anything negative about AOL and SSRS. But still, there would be some rational thinkers and open thinkers in AOL, who till now would have had their own doubts on some way or other. Your thought provoking blog and messages will definitely make them think and find out proofs of the messages, and I am sure shortly many AOLers who find the truth themselves will walk out of the CULT and might even surprisingly contribute to this blog with more 'Real events', of course as 'Anonymous'. Let's wait for such people. In the meantime, please recollect any other events and keep posting in the blog.
Klim ,
Much of this confusion & sexual abuses happen because these half baked gurus mix up Jnana Yoga (what Aadi Shankara & Bhagavan Ramana taught) with hatha yoga.
One Viveka Chudamani would suffice for the earnest seeker. Beautifully elucidated by Chandrasekara Bharathi , Bhagavan all of impeccable credentials.
Hatha yoga deals with nadis , chakras etc & is quite treacherous . As one's vasanas or inherent tendencies get violently churned. Those leading normal lives need not worry. But enforced celibacy & guilt associated with transgression of it wreaks havoc.
SriRamakrishna Paramahamsar says pursuing Jnana yoga ( enquiry) is like entering a house through the proper entrance.
Whereas hatha yoga path (pranayama kriyas , breath control etc) is like sneaking into a house through the toilet. Chances of one slipping & landing on a pile of s**t & breaking one's spine cannot be ruled out.
Not just SSRS , lot more avatards are getting exposed in regional newspapers.
Again all this claim of wrong doing, but nothing concrete. You can squawk all you want about how this is not the purpose of this blog. But you can't make claims like this without concrete evidence-not what you heard-and expect AOL people or anyone for that matter to have any sympathy.
Thank you so much. I don't have the courage to share my story publicaly (or even with my family). So I understand the courage this has taken for you - and I wasn't even a teacher. Sharing has a healing effect - if there is true seva, this must be it.. Thanks. May we all never lose our mind and common sense and basic rationalism..
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